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neek
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PostWed May 29, 2019 7:37 am 
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If you want to alter trail-widening behavior, volunteer to do some maintenance so that trails drain properly.  Yelling into the wind on internet forums about the realities of human nature and the modern world won't help much.

I'm finally at a point in life where I can slow down a little and start giving back.  When I was younger and focused on career- and family-building, options were more limited, and every little parasitic moment of trail enjoyment helped.  I don't expect younger people (who are more likely to be into trail running and other alternate forms of traditional hiking) to donate much in the way of money or time, although as pointed out in various comments above, they often do.  When they're older I hope there's some notion of repaying the debt--although if trail maintenance isn't your thing, no problem, keep on hiking and find some other way to make the world better.
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RandyHiker
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PostWed May 29, 2019 9:34 am 
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JonnyQuest
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PostWed May 29, 2019 12:17 pm 
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up.gif  up.gif

Especially the part about yelling into the wind.

While I'm at it, I'll share my favorite, and IMO humorous, "trail running" thread from the days of yore.
http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8007197
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Kim Brown
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PostWed May 29, 2019 1:57 pm 
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embarassedlaugh.gif I miss TAH!

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" I'm really happy about this! … I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  – oldgranola, NWH’s outdoors advocate.
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SwitchbackFisher
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PostWed May 29, 2019 4:56 pm 
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neek wrote:
If you want to alter trail-widening behavior, volunteer to do some maintenance so that trails drain properly.  Yelling into the wind on internet forums about the realities of human nature and the modern world won't help much.

I'm finally at a point in life where I can slow down a little and start giving back.  When I was younger and focused on career- and family-building, options were more limited, and every little parasitic moment of trail enjoyment helped.  I don't expect younger people (who are more likely to be into trail running and other alternate forms of traditional hiking) to donate much in the way of money or time, although as pointed out in various comments above, they often do.  When they're older I hope there's some notion of repaying the debt--although if trail maintenance isn't your thing, no problem, keep on hiking and find some other way to make the world better.

If there is an award for best post of the year I'd like to nominate this one!

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I may not be the smartest, I may not be the strongest, but I don't want to be. I only want to be the best I can be.
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texasbb
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PostWed May 29, 2019 7:34 pm 
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Kim Brown wrote:
embarassedlaugh.gif I miss TAH!

If there is an award for best post of the year I'd like to nominate this one!
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Cyclopath
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PostWed May 29, 2019 10:51 pm 
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RandyHiker wrote:
The author of the opinion piece Marc Peruzzi is a mtb advocate.  The opinion piece doesn't provide any evidence for it's claim that trail runners perform little trail work.  It seems to me the intent is to sow discord between foot travelers.

That's right.  Never forget the real evil comes on two wheels.
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MultiUser
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PostWed May 29, 2019 11:02 pm 
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Cyclopath wrote:
RandyHiker wrote:
The author of the opinion piece Marc Peruzzi is a mtb advocate.  The opinion piece doesn't provide any evidence for it's claim that trail runners perform little trail work.  It seems to me the intent is to sow discord between foot travelers.

That's right.  Never forget the real evil comes on two wheels.

If there is an award for best post of the year I'd like to nominate this one!

Although I also miss TAH.  Hopefully his absence here is due to something more pressing, like a book deal.
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timberghost
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PostThu May 30, 2019 5:12 am 
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I don't agree with that post, when they are older they move on to other ambitions
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RandyHiker
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PostFri Jul 12, 2019 2:10 pm 
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FWIW:  Link to a Cascade Crest 100 registrant specific work party.

https://www.pcta.org/volunteer-project/cascade-crest-100/
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RandyHiker
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PostFri Jul 12, 2019 2:22 pm 
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Cyclopath wrote:
RandyHiker wrote:
The author of the opinion piece Marc Peruzzi is a mtb advocate.  The opinion piece doesn't provide any evidence for it's claim that trail runners perform little trail work.  It seems to me the intent is to sow discord between foot travelers.

That's right.  Never forget the real evil comes on two wheels.

I ride several thousand miles per year on a variety of surfaces.  I love riding all the bikes in my stable.

However I reject the assertion made by the article that MTB riders are morally superior to pedestrians, particularly fast paced pedestrians.  I also reject the idea that better trail maintenance in wilderness areas is a good rational for changing current wildreness practices to allow wheeled access or chainsaw usage without specific justification.

I'm an advocate of keeping some tiny bits of the landscape inconvenient to visit.
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Cyclopath
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PostFri Jul 12, 2019 5:08 pm 
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neek wrote:
If you want to alter trail-widening behavior, volunteer to do some maintenance so that trails drain properly.  Yelling into the wind on internet forums about the realities of human nature and the modern world won't help much.

Went to an educational presentation on trail maintenance, and then a work party.  The guy from WTA said "people are like water, they'll find the easiest way."  If the trail is being widened, there's a reason for it.  A muddy area, etc.  He told us the way to help with this is to improve the trail so people don't want to leave it to go around something.
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Cyclopath
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PostFri Jul 12, 2019 5:14 pm 
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RandyHiker wrote:
I ride several thousand miles per year on a variety of surfaces.  I love riding all the bikes in my stable.

However I reject the assertion made by the article that MTB riders are morally superior to pedestrians, particularly fast paced pedestrians.  I also reject the idea that better trail maintenance in wilderness areas is a good rational for changing current wildreness practices to allow wheeled access or chainsaw usage without specific justification.

I'm an advocate of keeping some tiny bits of the landscape inconvenient to visit.

I know you're a cyclist.  I don't know what type (road, mountain, etc).  Thousands of miles per year is impressive.  (I do 3 to 5 thousand per year, almost entirely road.)

You're expressing a common refrain of hikers, though.  This land is ours, and we're not going to share it.

Mountain bikes have been loathed by the hiking community for decades now.  They're gaining acceptance, slowly.  And now trail runners are the sub human menace.  Can't we just accept that other people love the outdoors and natural beauty, and that dinner people will use public land in different ways than we do?  We're not talking about starting forest fires, we're taking about people moving with their feet, but at a different gait.  They're being demonized as "lazy parasites."  Taking about a group of people like that is shameful.
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RandyHiker
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PostSat Jul 13, 2019 6:09 am 
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Cyclopath wrote:
You're expressing a common refrain of hikers, though.  This land is ours, and we're not going to share it.

As I've stated earlier in this thread a bicycle is means of transportation,  not a person entitled to equal protection under the law.

People do have equal access to wilderness -- using their feet.

I ride my bike(s) on concrete, asphalt,  gravel and dirt.  Sometimes I hike my mtb bike to trailheads I used to access by car.  Hiking these trails that I hiked in past decades, I appreciate that getting in required a bit more effort and that the modern ethics of wilderness travel have improved the experience.

Quote:
A wilderness, in contrast with those areas where man and his works dominate the landscape, is hereby recognized as an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain

As a kid I recall hiking into parts of the current Alpine Lakes wilderness prior to its destination and having deal with "trail bike" riders and the ruts they created.   I have also flown into Waptus lake and well recall the looks on heavily loaded backpackers faces as we traipsed by burdened only with fishing poles.

So I well understand the value of making some places less convenient to access.
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