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hbb
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PostThu May 23, 2019 4:25 pm 
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Pahoehoe wrote:
Mountain bikers do more trail work than everyone else combined.

I'd put my money on the Backcountry Horseman of Washington as the most productive demographic when it comes to trail work.
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Foist
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PostThu May 23, 2019 4:32 pm 
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What a lazy, hacky, click-baity article.  He presents absolutely NO evidence that trail runners proportionally volunteer less, aside from the meaningless anecdote that he doesn't seem them at trail work parties.  But even if there are now 9 million trail runners, that is still way way fewer than ordinary "hikers."  So you are less likely to see one at a work party -- to the extent you can even tell the difference.  A trail runner who shows up at a work party is not necessarily going to wear his running clothes, because he's not going running. 

And that's the other point.  This article assumes that "trail runners" are distinct from "hikers."   I wouldn't call myself a trail runner, but I do run on trails sometimes.  Trail runners are just people who are hiking fast.  They essentially interact with trails the same way and need the same things from trails.  Given that, why SHOULD they have separate volunteer organizations from hiking?  He completely ignores this in favor of very bullshitty theories about lack of an "origin story", etc.  What would that "origin story" even look like?  "One day, Bob from Bellingham was hiking the Yellow Aster Butte trail and broke into a trot... and trail running was born."
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RandyHiker
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PostThu May 23, 2019 5:02 pm 
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In reading the article,  I see a bunch of mentions of the IMBA (International Mountain Biking Association) and all the trail work they do.  This is IME a recurring theme from the IMBA: "Open more trails to mountain biking, because we do a lot of trail maintenance"

With top line mountain bikes running 5K and up , mountain bike interests are able to sprinkle cash around to promote their interests via puff pieces.
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DigitalJanitor
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PostThu May 23, 2019 5:08 pm 
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RandyHiker wrote:
With top line mountain bikes running 5K and up , mountain bike interests are able to sprinkle cash around to promote their interests via puff pieces.

Wait- does this mean I'm not only not broke now, but I can maybe even afford a senator?  lol.gif

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fourteen410
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PostThu May 23, 2019 5:11 pm 
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Foist wrote:
What a lazy, hacky, click-baity article

^This. Heck, even the title of this thread is clickbaity.
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RandyHiker
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PostThu May 23, 2019 5:26 pm 
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DigitalJanitor wrote:
Wait- does this mean I'm not only not broke now, but I can maybe even afford a senator?  lol.gif

What brand of mountain bike does your company have manufacturered in China?
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Pahoehoe
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PostThu May 23, 2019 6:51 pm 
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hbb wrote:
Pahoehoe wrote:
Mountain bikers do more trail work than everyone else combined.

I'd put my money on the Backcountry Horseman of Washington as the most productive demographic when it comes to trail work.

At least half of the mountain bikers I know do more trail work than riding.

It's pretty insane.
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RandyHiker
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PostThu May 23, 2019 6:59 pm 
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Pahoehoe wrote:
hbb wrote:
Pahoehoe wrote:
Mountain bikers do more trail work than everyone else combined.

I'd put my money on the Backcountry Horseman of Washington as the most productive demographic when it comes to trail work.

At least half of the mountain bikers I know do more trail work than riding.

It's pretty insane.

What % of this trail work is on places like Duthie Hill?  There it's not just "trail" work, but a ton of work building jumps and other features that are a ton of fun for mountain bike riders, but of zero use to any other user group.

Including "terrain park" labor hours in the total of "trail work" hours is BS.

I agree that the Backcountry Horse folks do a tremendous amount of work keeping trails usable for a white range of users and I am very grateful for the efforts.
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Pahoehoe
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PostThu May 23, 2019 8:19 pm 
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The vast majority of trails sever multiple user groups, and there arent many places like duthie hill...
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Brian R
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PostThu May 23, 2019 9:07 pm 
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None of this is new. Harvey Manning was a master at pigeonholing "the other" going all the way back to the seventies. His 100 Hikes series reads like raging Get Off My Lawn! trope.
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RandyHiker
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PostFri May 24, 2019 6:41 am 
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Pahoehoe wrote:
The vast majority of trails sever multiple user groups, and there arent many places like duthie hill...

Yes "trails" but you evaded the question of the break down of trail work hours performed by mountain bike riders on "multi use" trails and "bike specific " trails.   It's not just terrain park like areas like Duthie Hill, but tons of other places, e.g. Many the trails on the south side of Tiger mountain are both "biker only" and  "downhill only" and feature things like rock lined banked turns.   This kind of trail work does take a huge amount of time and I think it's great that bikers are building trails for their enjoyment.   But I think including the hours spent building and maintaining such trails in a general tally of hours contributed to "multi use" trails is propaganda.
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Cyclopath
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PostFri May 24, 2019 10:10 am 
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Pahoehoe wrote:
Cyclopath wrote:
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Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 2:23 pm     Cyclopath wrote:
The main purpose of the article was to provide a reason to feel justified about seeing these "others" as "less than." But at least they're improving.



I didn't read it that way...

That's kind of my point.  As a hiker, you enjoy the privilege of not being made to feel unwelcome (and being legally welcome) on public land because of the way you love immersing yourself in nature.
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Cyclopath
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PostFri May 24, 2019 10:11 am 
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Foist wrote:
What a lazy, hacky, click-baity article.  He presents absolutely NO evidence that trail runners proportionally volunteer less

Well, he says he assumes the people he sees volunteering aren't runners.  Isn't that good enough?
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Cyclopath
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PostFri May 24, 2019 10:15 am 
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RandyHiker wrote:
With top line mountain bikes running 5K and up , mountain bike interests are able to sprinkle cash around to promote their interests via puff pieces.

With climbs like Everest costing hundreds of thousands of dollars, climbers can afford to just buy all the mountains they want?
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Pahoehoe
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PostFri May 24, 2019 2:04 pm 
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Cyclopath wrote:
Pahoehoe wrote:
Cyclopath wrote:
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Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 2:23 pm     Cyclopath wrote:
The main purpose of the article was to provide a reason to feel justified about seeing these "others" as "less than." But at least they're improving.



I didn't read it that way...

That's kind of my point.  As a hiker, you enjoy the privilege of not being made to feel unwelcome (and being legally welcome) on public land because of the way you love immersing yourself in nature.

Umm... lately, if I'm hiking I'm either pushing my bike up hill or wearing a pair of waders...

Most trail systems where mountain bikes are allowed are multi use and there are far more places bikes arent allowed than places they are.  The very few bike only trails compared to bike not allowed trails..

Actually, a lot of places have beautiful climbing trails built by mtn bikers that everyone can go up or down except bikes cannot go down.  This is reasonable in my mind, but the hikers and trail runners scream and cry about the idea of one or two bike only down trails... that mtn bikers also built...

Backcountry horsemen do a lot of good work, too but if you want to see a crowd show up and bust out trail fast, invite the mountain bikers...
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