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iron
getting old



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getting old
PostWed May 29, 2019 11:08 am 
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(might be wrong forum...)

if we are so concerned about the survival of salmon, why don't we just impose a moratorium on salmon harvesting for 3 years or so? seems more effective than all the bandaid solutions currently out there.

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Schenk
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PostWed May 29, 2019 11:36 am 
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Just a guess, but "they" are probably balancing demands from a number of groups on both sides of the debate.
And it must be considered that harvesting is not the only threat, nor even the most impacting.
my 2 cents (and worth at least half that!)

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treeswarper
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Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostWed May 29, 2019 12:31 pm 
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iron wrote:
(might be wrong forum...)

if we are so concerned about the survival of salmon, why don't we just impose a moratorium on salmon harvesting for 3 years or so? seems more effective than all the bandaid solutions currently out there.

I have wondered about that for years.  We throw so much money at salmon recovery, yet folks are still fishing for salmon.  It makes it hard to believe that salmon are in trouble.

Has doing away with hatchery raised fish worked.....nope.

Rehabbing streams?   Nope.

The latest threat here is Northern Pike.  These scary looking fish are above Grand Coulee in the Columbia, but may head downstream.  The Colville tribe has been netting them to try to get rid of them.  Another question from me.  We seem to be able to overfish and drive species to extinction, but can't seem to do the same with invasive species like the pike and the other one which I cannot remember.  The latter even has a bounty on it and some folks have made quite a bit of supplemental income catching them.

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Doppelganger
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Gorecrow
PostWed May 29, 2019 12:34 pm 
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Reminded me of this story a few weeks ago.

https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/seattle/about-18000-pounds-of-copper-river-salmon-arrives-in-seattle/281-1e42fbd5-9745-437b-afd0-940c66a9183f

I know these guys aren't waving around the fresh corpse of a dead dog, but there's something repulsive about how they try to make this some kind of event or spectacle. Not sure a big grin is what I would be wearing. There are better things to be proud of than this.

They'll need to start flying salmon in to Issaquah Salmon Days before long, those spawns are looking damn sparse since 00.
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Schenk
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Off Leash Man
PostWed May 29, 2019 1:59 pm 
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treeswarper wrote:
The latter even has a bounty on it and some folks have made quite a bit of supplemental income catching them.

If I am not mistaken, Mackinaw/Lake Trout (non-native) found in some lakes connected to the Columbia around here (Priest, Pend O'reille), and Pike Minnow (native) in the Columbia System, have both had bounties placed on them.
Yeah, and Pike...they are voracious eaters of trout and salmon.

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treeswarper
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Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostWed May 29, 2019 2:56 pm 
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https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/may/22/colville-tribe-nets-28-pounds-female-northern-pike/

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timberghost
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PostThu May 30, 2019 5:16 am 
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Tell that to the native americans who seem be oblivious with wanton waste.
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Gregory
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PostThu May 30, 2019 7:15 am 
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Between treaties with the tribes and the fact that both Canada and Alaska catch much of our fish and the market value, curtailing harvest is an EXTREMELY complicated process. Washington state does not govern the tribes. If Jay Inslee was to sign something stopping all commercial and sport salmon fishing tomorrow it would have no bearing on the tribes. Add to that we are obligated to make sure the tribes have salmon to harvest by treaty.. The hatcheries are there for the tribes not Washington state citizens.

So let's say the non-tribal interest, commercial and sport, decided to stop Salmon fishing to help save the Salmon, In the Boldt decision, guaranteeing the tribes 50% of the salmon, is a "forgone opportunity" clause. Basically, it means that the tribes get to harvest the fish we elected not to and they do. They do it every year with Steelhead on the coast.We elected as sportsmen to regulate the wild steelhead in the HOH, Sol duc, etc catch and release. the tribes laughed and waived there middle fingers at the state and now they stretch the nets across the rivers twice as long.

Folks the Salmon are screwed to put it nicely. The only question is how much money the ignorant are willing to spend on feel-good crap, going down the path of destruction.
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Anne Elk
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BrontosaurusTheorist
PostThu May 30, 2019 12:18 pm 
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Gregory wrote:
Folks the Salmon are screwed to put it nicely. The only question is how much money the ignorant are willing to spend on feel-good crap, going down the path of destruction.

I've had the same thought that Iron had, who started this thread:  "just stop fishing", and reached the same conclusion that Gregory did, above.  The tribes and the sport fishers and commercial guys would all be screaming, so the political will is weak to do anything other than tokenism.  When orca populations are starving, that's a huge indicator that the food chain has collapsed.  Consider the historical data.  It's not just the overfishing; as we know, it's the habitat destruction.

I don't think we'll stop until there are so few fish it doesn't pay to run the boats, as happened with the Canadian cod fishery decades ago.  I'm reminded of Garnet Rogers' cover of Final Trawl (fwd to 5:30),the most poignant rendition of a tune about the loss of a resource, ever.

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JimmyBob
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PostThu May 30, 2019 1:34 pm 
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The native tribes do work towards to protecting the habitat.

Each year they buy more habitat, as you just said, without habitat there is no hope.
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wanderwild
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PostThu May 30, 2019 3:39 pm 
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The Mountaineers have a related event next Friday - https://allevents.in/mobile/amp-event.php?event_id=1000061258450675

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Schroder
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PostThu May 30, 2019 5:28 pm 
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Gregory wrote:
Folks the Salmon are screwed to put it nicely. The only question is how much money the ignorant are willing to spend on feel-good crap, going down the path of destruction.

up.gif exactly.
IMO a moratorium by all is the only way the runs will recover and that isn't going to happen.
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Gregory
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PostFri May 31, 2019 1:39 pm 
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Problem is that there is a substantial amount of money to be had in both commercial and sport fishing. On top of that, it is not just money to the tribes but it is a part of their culture and a right guaranteed by the courts. That guarantee equals power over the state and unfortunately, its constiguants.....us. I say unfortunately because the general public has little to nothing to say about the management of our fisheries but we will be the ones to pay dearly. They will never give up their rights to fish. I Don't blame them. Even if NOAA or the feds in some form stopped the tribes from fishing they would turn around and sue the state or us once again for mismanagement of the resource. They would or maybe I should say "will" win because it is inevitable. Once the political power of the "right" to fish plays itself out, they will take the next step which will be in the courts.

Unfortunately, it would do little good for just Washington state to stop harvesting salmon. A real moratorium would need the cooperation of Alaska, Canada, us and the tribes. Good luck.

Just for the record, I have not bought a saltwater license in 6 years and not fished anadromous fish in four. I do still hike the small streams I grew up on hoping to see fish returning but alas. I do still fish remote trout fisheries as hard as that is getting to be as I get older. Packing my pack as I type, for a four-day excursion to one of those Remote spots.

Why is it that every resource worth money is raped and pillaged until it is in crisis mode before the right thing is done. Greed. The native Americans before we got here and took it all away were the only culture I know of, that understood life in balance with nature was better than not. That said the Tribes as we know them now, are no more innocent in this tragedy than we are.
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alpendave
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Cat Herder
PostSat Jun 01, 2019 7:32 am 
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And the forage fish the salmon depend on, and the habitat those forage fish depend on, and...?

Forage fish of Puget Sound

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Gregory
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PostSun Jun 02, 2019 6:20 am 
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20 years now LLTK has been trying to save the salmon and steelhead in my back yard. Both are worst off than when they started getting paid. Maybe if they would quit trapping every smolt, adult and egg they could find the fish would be better off. Is it about the fish or the millions of dollars?

People have been studying cherry point since the 80s I believe. It would be interesting to add up just how much money has been spent to come up with the same conclusions. There is no magic one thing we are going to find that is going to save the herring. Man is what is wrong with the herring stocks. Cherry point has an oil refinery and aluminum smelter for neighbors. Who in their right mind decided to put that on top of Puget Sounds largest herring stocks? Add to that we have drastically changed the shorelines from Cherry point to the nastiest crap hole that calls the Puget sound home, otherwise known a Seattle. Herring do not like that. It's not rocket science. Take away every waterfront home beach rights and bring back the beaches. Close the oil refinery and the smelter. Stop all the runoff from our roads from reaching the sound and treat it etc etc. Or study and study it and study it. I am sick of paying people to study the obvious and pretending it is doing something about the problem.
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