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Celticclimber
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PostTue Aug 20, 2019 7:13 am 
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Leavers of trash is not just a NW issue.
Below is a news report from Scotland.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-49406333

This isn't new to them. But it is getting worse.

Ya gotta wonder. If they  can't respect the place they camp in.
What else aren't they respecting?




Live everyday like you will die to-marrow. For some day that will be true.

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neek
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PostTue Aug 20, 2019 7:29 am 
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Celticclimber wrote:
This isn't new to them. But it is getting worse.

A shame.  Right to roam laws are such a great feature of many European countries.  Hope they're able to maintain that freedom.
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Cyclopath
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PostTue Aug 20, 2019 11:46 pm 
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Have you guys seen LetsGoTrashTheAlpine.com yet?
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Sky Hiker
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PostWed Aug 21, 2019 5:35 am 
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No who is their sponsor we should boycott them
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forest gnome
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PostWed Aug 21, 2019 6:06 am 
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WHERE'S THE PICTURES ....someone mentioned the crap, garbage,trees cut down... at peggy's pond..I was thinking of a thread for just that so people would think twice before posting here or on social media .....about sensitive area's that see less then 30? people a year...(I know that's not peggy's pond but you are smart enuf to figure out I
m talking past there...

I don't need to see tons of people and their dogs in easy to access- sensitive... area's.

a recent report of some lake above dorthy comes to mind, granted it's hard to git to... huh.gif

one person was smart  enuf to ask if a report for going past watson would be ok to post, and I said why ruin the first part for us old guys who can only do the first part of the hike?

YA'ALL that are stupid enuf to post on social media ect...(for special, sensitive area's) MAY AS WELL take a bag of garbage and take a huge dump in the camp sights that see less then 30? people visiting yearly....oh and leave a smoldering fire in the meadow also...THANKS!
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BigBrunyon
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PostWed Aug 21, 2019 8:04 am 
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Couldn't agree more forest gnome!!

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SwitchbackFisher
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PostWed Aug 21, 2019 8:55 am 
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forest gnome wrote:
WHERE'S THE PICTURES ....someone mentioned the crap, garbage,trees cut down... at peggy's pond..I was thinking of a thread for just that so people would think twice before posting here or on social media .....about sensitive area's that see less then 30? people a year...(I know that's not peggy's pond but you are smart enuf to figure out I
m talking past there...

I don't need to see tons of people and their dogs in easy to access- sensitive... area's.

a recent report of some lake above dorthy comes to mind, granted it's hard to git to... huh.gif

one person was smart  enuf to ask if a report for going past watson would be ok to post, and I said why ruin the first part for us old guys who can only do the first part of the hike?

YA'ALL that are stupid enuf to post on social media ect...(for special, sensitive area's) MAY AS WELL take a bag of garbage and take a huge dump in the camp sights that see less then 30? people visiting yearly....oh and leave a smoldering fire in the meadow also...THANKS!

Do you feel better now? This topic clearly has deteriorated to a place to complain. Maybe we should make a second thread where there can actually be conversation about how to combat these issues. And to too call people stupid just for making trip reports, very classy. Go be grumpy somewhere else please.

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kiliki
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PostWed Aug 21, 2019 8:57 am 
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SwitchbackFisher wrote:
I have been thinking about ways to use social media to help promote LNT and good ethics at the same time. I have been thinking of trash challenges,

I think this is a good idea. It's something WTA posts about (bringing a trash bag) and trip reporters there frequently post about what trash they collected. While in the past I would stuff a piece of trash in my backpack now I remember to bring a bag and I really look for trash. The more we normalize this the more people will do it.

We were using Guthook's PCT app a couple weeks ago in the Goat Rocks. People can upload comments to the app and they do report issues like the person who posted about being careful using the water in the main creek in Cispus Basin--they watched a thru hiker take a dump right in the creek. I think that is a good idea as well, though it's hard to know if it will change any thru hikers' behavior. (The lack of LNT or good wilderness among PCT thru hikers is also out of control, IMO--these folks tend not carry a trowel or a bag for hanging food, due to weight. Any permits for thru hikers have jumped from something like, 1000-something 7 years ago to over 7000 now, and that's not counting section or other hikers).
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kiliki
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PostWed Aug 21, 2019 9:03 am 
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Sometimes I wonder if hiking should be treated more like fishing, in terms of the structure of permits and fees. In popular places that are getting hammered maybe the FS should require another fee/permit you can send away for. It costs $20 and you only get it after signing something that details LNT rules. That's not going to be a cure all but maybe it can fund staff to help prevent problems/enforce rules. I went to the Maroon Bells in CO 25+ years ago and even then the White River National Forest there charged $10 extra to access that area. I notice now it's $25 to park there for 8+ hours, or, $8 if you ride the shuttle bus in. I'd rather see an individual permit system where each hiker attaches the permit to their pack here.
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kiliki
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PostWed Aug 21, 2019 9:10 am 
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Someone mentioned population growth as part of the issue, and I'm sure that's right, but also--there has been a HUGE growth in tourism. 1.2 million people are coming in to Seattle just to cruise between May and September each summer; the number grows every year; these folks all come early and stay late and want to see WA's national parks and other beautiful spots. If you look at the Trip Advisor forum--the biggest travel forum out there--you can see all the questions about Diablo Lake, Blue Lake, Maple Pass, Artist's Point, Mt Rainier, Hurricane Ridge, the ONP beaches, the San Juans...how many of these tourists know anything about LNT? How many think it's fine to leave your lunch scraps behind because "it decomposes"?
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SwitchbackFisher
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PostWed Aug 21, 2019 9:12 am 
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Killiki I intend to start trying to talk to the right people with the USFS who can actually make changes. Another idea is if they hand out bags free at ranger stations and someone brings it back full of trash, ( if you don't trust them require picture with it a trailheads maybe? Or wilderness permits with it.) That looks like they collected on the trail give them 5$ off next year's nwf pass or America the beautiful. Maybe increase the discount if they share the above photo on Instagram or whatever, and tag ranger district.

I think if things are approached the right way this issue really can be fought.

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SwitchbackFisher
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PostWed Aug 21, 2019 9:14 am 
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I do like your idea of charging more to get into sensitive areas as well.

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treeswarper
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PostWed Aug 21, 2019 10:01 am 
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SwitchbackFisher wrote:
Do you feel better now? This topic clearly has deteriorated to a place to complain. Maybe we should make a second thread where there can actually be conversation about how to combat these issues. And to too call people stupid just for making trip reports, very classy. Go be grumpy somewhere else please.

Are you unaware of the PNW traditions?  Until the internet, we natives had the world convinced that it was a dreary world of dark days, mildew and rain.  Even we eastern Warshington folks tried to convey that message.  Then techies from elsewhere began moving here and then the hordes started coming here after hearing and seeing evidence of sunny days in "the mountains".

A noble tradition ended and you now have the results.   Quit complaining.

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Randito
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PostWed Aug 21, 2019 10:06 am 
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SwitchbackFisher wrote:
I do like your idea of charging more to get into sensitive areas as well.

The problem with such an approach is it may foster an even more entitled attitude:: "I paid good money to be here, the USFS has to provide garbage service"
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Cyclopath
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PostWed Aug 21, 2019 11:00 am 
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kiliki wrote:
Someone mentioned population growth as part of the issue, and I'm sure that's right, but also--there has been a HUGE growth in tourism. 1.2 million people are coming in to Seattle just to cruise between May and September each summer; the number grows every year; these folks all come early and stay late and want to see WA's national parks and other beautiful spots. If you look at the Trip Advisor forum--the biggest travel forum out there--you can see all the questions about Diablo Lake, Blue Lake, Maple Pass, Artist's Point, Mt Rainier, Hurricane Ridge, the ONP beaches, the San Juans...how many of these tourists know anything about LNT? How many think it's fine to leave your lunch scraps behind because "it decomposes"?

Sounds like a good way to help would be to post regularly on Trip Advisor.
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