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Bernardo
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PostThu Aug 01, 2019 4:42 pm 
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Follow the rules.  You will be happier.
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Slugman
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PostThu Aug 01, 2019 5:30 pm 
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So, you have a permit with your name on it, but your brother won't be there, and he is the group leader? Seems strange that you can't  use your own permit. I don't  see any actual rule stating that one person not going means everyone is cancelled.

I stopped entering this rigged fiasco when they started stealing the money of everyone who enters the lottery and gets no permit. Only people who get permits should have to pay anything. The current system is a criminal scam in my opinion.

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"There is a pleasure in the pathless woods, There is a rapture on the lonely shore. There is society where none intrudes, By the deep sea, and music in its roar: I love not man the less, but nature more..."  Childe Harold
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Cyclopath
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PostThu Aug 01, 2019 5:44 pm 
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awilsondc wrote:
Cyclopath wrote:
Is it true rangers only check permits in the morning? 

No, I've been checked on the way out around 4pm.

At 4 pm how do they know whether you broke the tiles and camped illegally, or got an early start as a day hiker?  By the size of your pack?  Are day hikers allowed to carry emergency overnight gear?  I always assume if I ever have to hit the button on my PLB, help will arrive the next day, so I need to make it through the night.

As a day hiker I'd personally never carry unnecessary weight up that long slog, and a camp is heavy.

I wonder if I broke the rules with my slowest known time day hike.  Went in over Aasgard, almost made it to Snow Lakes by dark, hiked through the night.  Never stopped more than ten minutes.
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fourteen410
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PostThu Aug 01, 2019 7:40 pm 
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Why would you announce your plans to go into the chants without a proper permit on the internet??

If you're going to do it, zip it and don't broadcast it where anyone can read it.
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Kim Brown
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PostFri Aug 02, 2019 8:48 am 
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Cyclopath wrote:
awilsondc wrote:
Cyclopath wrote:
Is it true rangers only check permits in the morning? 

No, I've been checked on the way out around 4pm.

At 4 pm how do they know whether you broke the tiles and camped illegally, or got an early start as a day hiker?  By the size of your pack?  Are day hikers allowed to carry emergency overnight gear?  I always assume if I ever have to hit the button on my PLB, help will arrive the next day, so I need to make it through the night.

As a day hiker I'd personally never carry unnecessary weight up that long slog, and a camp is heavy.

I wonder if I broke the rules with my slowest known time day hike.  Went in over Aasgard, almost made it to Snow Lakes by dark, hiked through the night.  Never stopped more than ten minutes.

They can just check. If they don't have the full blow-by-blow of your life, or if you're a lying sack of sh## about your doings in the Enchantments, the minimum they would likely do is check for a day pass. That way, when someone asks on the internet, "Do they ever check?" the answer is "yes, they check."  wink.gif

And if they see you again 4 hours later after dark, chances are they'll check again, and perhaps ask more pointed questions. Or the next morning, if they see you, they may check again.

The point is, they check. up.gif

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" I'm really happy about this! … I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  – oldgranola, NWH’s outdoors advocate.
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Cyclopath
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PostFri Aug 02, 2019 10:11 am 
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So was I in the wrong taking 23 hours to hike across?  Am I allowed to spend the night on Little Annapurna with a camera and tripod taking night pictures if I never camp or sleep and don't have overnight gear?

Not planning to game the system.  I'm a software engineer because how systems work fascinates me.
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NacMacFeegle
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PostFri Aug 02, 2019 11:16 am 
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GroundGuru wrote:
My brother got an enchantment permit for this upcoming weekend (beyond the change deadline since he printed the ticket). He hurt his leg playing frisbee and won't be able to do the hike but I still want to go on the hike.

How closely do the rangers check the permits? Do they check your ID to make sure the name is the same as my ID? If they do, do you think I could edit the permit to put my name as the alternate group leader? Do they have a list to cross check the permit against?

I would be going alone so the impact to the area is less than it would be if we both went so I do not believe I am doing anything to harm the area.

You could just go on that permit and claim you're hiking with your brother, but that he got held up at work and was planning to make a late start and meet you at camp. Next day say that he went on a solo day hike to ____ lake/peak. I can't see them demanding that he make an appearance or waiting around with you for him to show up, and it doesn't seem like it'd be too hard to keep up the excuses for the duration of the trip. I don't see any ethical problems with this scheme either - as you pointed out the impact is actually reduced if one person goes on a two person permit.

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Read my hiking related stories and more at http://illuminationsfromtheattic.blogspot.com/
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RandyHiker
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PostFri Aug 02, 2019 11:58 am 
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NacMacFeegle wrote:
You could just go on that permit and claim you're hiking with your brother, but that he got held up at work and was planning to make a late start and meet you at camp. Next day say that he went on a solo day hike to ____ lake/peak. I can't see them demanding that he make an appearance or waiting around with you for him to show up, and it doesn't seem like it'd be too hard to keep up the excuses for the duration of the trip. I don't see any ethical problems with this scheme either - as you pointed out the impact is actually reduced if one person goes on a two person permit.

The permit terms require the party to travel together.
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BigBrunyon
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PostFri Aug 02, 2019 1:04 pm 
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fourteen410 wrote:
Why would you announce your plans to go into the chants without a proper permit on the internet??

If you're going to do it, zip it and don't broadcast it where anyone can read it.

Seriously. Rumor has it the CIA and FBI scour hiking message boards for information like this and then mine the IP addresses to match the screen name to a physical address and then will stake out your place till they see you leaving with hiking gear, and then follow you all the way to the trailhead and into the Enchantments under cover till you set up camp. Then they bust out their badges and you're in a heap of trouble!!

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i ALWAYS camp at the upper lake!
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fourteen410
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PostFri Aug 02, 2019 1:22 pm 
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BigBrunyon wrote:
fourteen410 wrote:
Why would you announce your plans to go into the chants without a proper permit on the internet??

If you're going to do it, zip it and don't broadcast it where anyone can read it.

Seriously. Rumor has it the CIA and FBI scour hiking message boards for information like this and then mine the IP addresses to match the screen name to a physical address and then will stake out your place till they see you leaving with hiking gear, and then follow you all the way to the trailhead and into the Enchantments under cover till you set up camp. Then they bust out their badges and you're in a heap of trouble!!

Or, if he is caught and tries to appeal a fine, it'll be pretty easy to identify him as the guy whose brother cancelled.

Nice hyperbole, though.
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Cyclopath
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PostFri Aug 02, 2019 1:23 pm 
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BigBrunyon wrote:
Seriously. Rumor has it the CIA and FBI scour hiking message boards for information like this and then mine the IP addresses to match the screen name to a physical address and then will stake out your place till they see you leaving with hiking gear, and then follow you all the way to the trailhead and into the Enchantments under cover till you set up camp. Then they bust out their badges and you're in a heap of trouble!!

I thought that goat was staring at people suspiciously.  Good costume.
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coldrain108
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PostFri Aug 02, 2019 1:26 pm 
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Here is a better solution...


no quota...and no people.

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"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch and do nothing"  - Albert Einstein
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Kim Brown
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PostFri Aug 02, 2019 2:37 pm 
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BigBrunyon wrote:
fourteen410 wrote:
Why would you announce your plans to go into the chants without a proper permit on the internet??

If you're going to do it, zip it and don't broadcast it where anyone can read it.

Seriously. Rumor has it the CIA and FBI scour hiking message boards for information like this and then mine the IP addresses to match the screen name to a physical address

The jerks who vandalised the Mt Pilchuck lookout several years ago got caught because of their posts online, as did the guy who climbed atop the Green Mtn Lookout's roof for a selfie, as did a guy who was building his own hiking trails along I-90 himself.

So yeah, planning and boasting on-line....

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" I'm really happy about this! … I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  – oldgranola, NWH’s outdoors advocate.
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BigBrunyon
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PostFri Aug 02, 2019 2:48 pm 
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Kim Brown wrote:
The jerks who vandalised the Mt Pilchuck lookout several years ago got caught because of their posts online, as did the guy who climbed atop the Green Mtn Lookout's roof for a selfie, as did a guy who was building his own hiking trails along I-90 himself.

Those were all after the fact, where they went back and found the guy after he committed crimes. What I'm talking about is an alleged new program to catch potential non Enchantment permit holders in the Enchantments red handed by preemptively looking for threads where people ask questions about the permits.

Those who oppose this new program argue it is a waste of funding and that most big high profile stake-outs will be unsuccessful because either the person of interest (POI) decides not to go without a permit, or the agents will fall asleep and miss that crucial moment when they see the POI walking out of their home with those tell-tale trekking poles.

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i ALWAYS camp at the upper lake!
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Kim Brown
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PostFri Aug 02, 2019 2:54 pm 
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OK this is a ridiculous, tedious conversation, I'm out.  rolleyes.gif Hike your hike however you want to.

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" I'm really happy about this! … I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  – oldgranola, NWH’s outdoors advocate.
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