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Cyclopath
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PostTue Sep 24, 2019 7:45 am 
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In any case, I don't think the parking change has deterred very many people from day hiking there.  I wouldn't consider a 5 mile road walk acceptable, but a lot of people seem to.  It looks like more people are going in through Snow, I guess at least Spring and Manning would be happy about that.

In other news, there are porta potties on Icicle Road at several popular climbing parking areas.
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Kim Brown
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PostTue Sep 24, 2019 8:02 am 
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Pahoehoe wrote:
I get that its unattractive and it takes a long time (if ever) to heal, but there are vast stretches that arent impacted. Its it really a huge conservation issue or an aesthetics issue?

Conservation was a big factor in the implementation of the permit system in the first place, so I'd put a yes to that.

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" I'm really happy about this! I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  oldgranola, NWHs outdoors advocate.
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Pahoehoe
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PostTue Sep 24, 2019 8:07 am 
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Kim Brown wrote:
Pahoehoe wrote:
I get that its unattractive and it takes a long time (if ever) to heal, but there are vast stretches that arent impacted. Its it really a huge conservation issue or an aesthetics issue?

Conservation was a big factor in the implementation of the permit system in the first place, so I'd put a yes to that.

I guess what I was getting at was are there plants that are likely to go extinct or animals being impacted in a way that threatens them to risk their survival?

It doesnt take many people to kill heather.

Is a few areas of heavy impact versus a lot of areas of moderate impact better?

Are the dayhikers/trail runners really causing the impact or is it backpackers?

How many people can they realistically limit it to and will it make a difference?
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Kim Brown
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PostTue Sep 24, 2019 8:48 am 
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No clue.

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" I'm really happy about this! I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  oldgranola, NWHs outdoors advocate.
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BigBrunyon
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PostTue Sep 24, 2019 11:38 am 
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Cyclopath wrote:
I wouldn't consider a 5 mile road walk acceptable, but a lot of people seem to.

See, what you have to understand here is that there is only one hike in the cascades and without that 5 mile road walk, there are NO hikes in the cascades.

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Merlin
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PostWed Sep 25, 2019 5:20 am 
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Heyo team. Local FS employee - the main and underlying motives for the restrictions are health and safety - EMS vehicles cannot respond efficiently or at all in some cases and the toilets are unsanitary within hours of being cleaned. Impacts to wildlife and plants are secondary to these issues. That's all I got - just a Tech, happy hiking.
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gb
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PostWed Sep 25, 2019 5:32 am 
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This should cure a few folks: https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/forecast/wxtables/index.php?lat=47.502358951968596&lon=-120.77545166015626&table=custom&duration=7&interval=6
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Cyclopath
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PostWed Sep 25, 2019 7:19 am 
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Merlin wrote:
Heyo team. Local FS employee - the main and underlying motives for the restrictions are health and safety - EMS vehicles cannot respond efficiently or at all in some cases and the toilets are unsanitary within hours of being cleaned. Impacts to wildlife and plants are secondary to these issues. That's all I got - just a Tech, happy hiking.

Thanks for sharing this.   smile.gif
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Kim Brown
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PostWed Sep 25, 2019 7:20 am 
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Merlin wrote:
Heyo team. Local FS employee - the main and underlying motives for the restrictions are health and safety - EMS vehicles cannot respond efficiently or at all in some cases and the toilets are unsanitary within hours of being cleaned. Impacts to wildlife and plants are secondary to these issues. That's all I got - just a Tech, happy hiking.

Thanks for the response. A familiar bane; Blanca Lake, Mason Lake, and several others suffer the same problem. frown.gif

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" I'm really happy about this! I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  oldgranola, NWHs outdoors advocate.
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joker
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PostWed Sep 25, 2019 9:10 am 
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[rant] I kinda get that some people have no clue (or perhaps conscience) about how they handle their feces in spots like the  sides of roads and trails and campsites and also that pit toilets have a practical limit to rate of use. But I've  been a bit bowled over by the degree  of cluelessness or thoughtlessness or both in parking when the truly OK spaces fill up - that people will park in ways that prevent,  for  instance, any vehicle larger than a SmartCar getting through, even though there are hundreds of cars parked upstream of them. I barely  got my Jetta out from one hike a few years  ago after some swift individual did a creative parking  job after us, and I've seen more than once where full size pickups or vans couldn't get through (and those EMS/ambulance vehicles they bring to SAR staging areas are a lot  wider than full size pickups and vans!). Maybe it's a sign of my age and  I'm just getting crabby, and I'm not aiming this at any particular generation with the age comment btw, but it sure seems that  common sense and contextual awareness are on the decline on average. [/rant]

OK, with that out of my system (at least partially ;-) ), from some of the  comments about the spillover onto  the  Icicle road etc. it really  does start to  sound like something akin to the Zion/Grand Canyon mandatory shuttle regimes may start to make sense up along  at least 8 mile road, perhaps save for letting people with a permit get their crew through (just as in Zion you  can drive past the closure with a reservation at the  lodge). Which of course would require more $ and thus new fees for dayhikers there and higher fees for overnighters. And a huge set of lots somewhere on the edge of Fakegermantown.
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Brushwork
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PostWed Sep 25, 2019 10:37 am 
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Along with others, Thank you Merlin for posting.   Its good to hear something about the actual process.

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thunderhead
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PostWed Sep 25, 2019 11:08 am 
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Why not charge more for passes?  That would rapidly cut down on crowd size, while also getting the FS more money.
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Kim Brown
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PostWed Sep 25, 2019 2:44 pm 
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That would go over like a lead balloon (hey, someone should name a band).

But actually a lead balloon would have a better chance.

What would be easiest is if everyone would just drop dead en masse.

But thats probably not going to happen so the quickest solution is to enforce parking (laws? Regulations?).

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" I'm really happy about this! I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  oldgranola, NWHs outdoors advocate.
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Downhill
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PostWed Sep 25, 2019 3:19 pm 
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Merlin wrote:
Heyo team. Local FS employee - the main and underlying motives for the restrictions are health and safety - EMS vehicles cannot respond efficiently or at all in some cases and the toilets are unsanitary within hours of being cleaned. Impacts to wildlife and plants are secondary to these issues. That's all I got - just a Tech, happy hiking.

up.gif Thanks for the communication.  It helps to know.
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slabbyd
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PostWed Sep 25, 2019 8:16 pm 
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ENP - Enchantments National Park

Dont even have to construct the tourist trap town at the entrance, its already there.  Entrance booth just off HWY 2, big visitors center and parking lot at the former Sleeping Lady.  Shuttles all day along the Icicle.  5 mile back ups at the entrance.  Problems solved.
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