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Cyclopath
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PostWed Aug 07, 2019 10:20 am 
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What is poop compliance like on Mount Adams?

I know there's a blue bag policy for dogs, and every trail they're allowed on is lined with blue cairns.

I agree with you that there's room for more than 25 people (or parties?) up there.  I don't think there's anything wrong went the current system of using vault toilets and helicopters to empty them.  I'm sure it's expensive, but it costs $6 to buy a lottery ticket and 50,000 people bought tickets this year.  It's another $5 if you win.  They can afford it.
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MtnGoat
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PostWed Aug 07, 2019 12:12 pm 
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RandyHiker wrote:
The Enchantments quota system is pretty ridiculous.  For the core zone it is limited to 24 people a day for camping.  That seems like pretty small number for the number of acres to me.  Limiting the number of visitors to achieve some level of "solitude" seems like a misguided goal to me.   Raising the quota and instituting a "pack it all out" policy as is used on Mt Adam's seems like an effective way to meet the demand while avoiding polluting the environment.

There are plenty of areas in the Cascades where solitude is available for those that seek it.

I agree. I'm sure the 'solitude' wording has an impact on management quotas everywhere. This wording needs to be revisited, IMO.

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reststep
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PostWed Aug 07, 2019 1:02 pm 
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RandyHiker wrote:
For the core zone it is limited to 24 people a day for camping.

I think that is the maximum number of people allowed to start each day so there could be more people camped in the core area at any given time.

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Cyclopath
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PostWed Aug 07, 2019 8:57 pm 
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Some friends and I are starting a service.  For $100 I'll park ahead of time at the TH and give you my spot when you arrive.

wink.gif
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RandyHiker
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PostWed Aug 07, 2019 9:49 pm 
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reststep wrote:
RandyHiker wrote:
For the core zone it is limited to 24 people a day for camping.

I think that is the maximum number of people allowed to start each day so there could be more people camped in the core area at any given time.

USFS wrote:
Quotas for Enchantment Permit Zones

Core Enchantment Zone:  24 people per day*
Colchuck Zone: 3 groups per day
Stuart Zone: 4 groups per day
Snow Zone: 5 groups per day
Eightmile / Caroline Zone: 3 groups per day

*Core Enchantment Zone: 24 visitors are permitted to enter the Core zone per day. 16 visitor spaces are available through the advanced lottery, while the remaining eight spaces are available through the walk-in lottery. Maximum group size is eight people.

LINK
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Animal Chin
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PostThu Aug 08, 2019 8:58 am 
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The problem is all of the trail runners, day hikers and one day through hikers.  I do believe they should start permitting anyone who is in the Enchantments even if they are not backpacking.  This would ease the congestion at the parking lots.
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neek
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PostThu Aug 08, 2019 9:29 am 
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Yeah I didn't want to say anything but I was one of the 95% of people on the trail without an overnight pack a few weekends ago.  Such intense roadblocks for backpackers with no restrictions for day hikers (who usually take multiple cars to avoid riding a bike or making other shuttle arrangements) seems a bit imbalanced.  Backpackers have slightly more impact (mostly in the form of pooping I suppose) but not nearly that much.  I'm not saying institute quotas or anything (although maybe it has come to that), but at least force people to think a tiny bit.
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joker
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PostThu Aug 08, 2019 10:16 am 
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Trailhead parking garages will be the wave of the  future
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Cyclopath
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PostThu Aug 08, 2019 11:00 am 
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neek wrote:
Yeah I didn't want to say anything but I was one of the 95% of people on the trail without an overnight pack a few weekends ago.  Such intense roadblocks for backpackers with no restrictions for day hikers (who usually take multiple cars to avoid riding a bike or making other shuttle arrangements) seems a bit imbalanced.  Backpackers have slightly more impact (mostly in the form of pooping I suppose) but not nearly that much.  I'm not saying institute quotas or anything (although maybe it has come to that), but at least force people to think a tiny bit.

That's why the FS is considering requiring backpackers to take Immodium AD.
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slabbyd
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PostThu Aug 08, 2019 11:06 am 
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This will hardly do anything to decrease the number of people trying to hike to Colchuck.    Tons of traffic, tons of disappointment.  What will everyone's Plan B be?     Seems like day quota/reservations is the only viable long term solution.   As far as resulting in crowds elsewhere, I gotta think a good percentage of Colchuck hikers are in the Colchuck or bust camp and aren't going to motivated for any Plan B.
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joker
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PostThu Aug 08, 2019 11:36 am 
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FYI I saw this text posted  to  FB (along with photos of a trashed  outhouse, crazy parking, etc.) by the OWNF today:

Quote:
Changes to public parking on Eightmile Road; ‘No Parking’ signs going up
Leavenworth area – While traveling up the Eightmile Road, just southwest of the town of Leavenworth, WA, forest visitors are surrounded by beautiful views of the Icicle River, majestic mountains, and challenging terrain. On some days, the biggest challenge can be finding a place to park, as motorists must wend their way through cars parked alongside the road, sometimes even blocking the narrow roadway to two-way traffic.
To lessen the parking congestion, increase visitor safety, facilitate emergency vehicle access, and alleviate impacts to infrastructure and natural resources, Forest Service staff will implement a change in public parking along Forest Service Eightmile Road No. 7601 starting September 3, 2019.
It is not uncommon to encounter parked cars on both sides of this one-lane road from Stuart Lake to Eightmile Lake Trailhead and beyond, especially on weekends and holidays. This creates public safety issues and concerns as it relates to the ingress/egress for emergency vehicles, to conflicts between motorized vehicle users accessing the trailheads, and pedestrians walking the road to and from the trailheads.
“We are also seeing public health concerns due to over use of toilet facilities, people defecating on the ground at the trailheads and adjacent forest areas, and an increase in litter,” Wenatchee River Ranger District Recreation Program Manager Les Moscoso said.
The Stuart Lake and Eightmile Lake Trailheads provide access to some of the most popular recreation areas in the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest and are simply exploding in popularity. “The demand for vehicle parking has increased exponentially as the popularity of the Enchantments area of the Alpine Lakes Wilderness has ballooned in the past decade,” Moscoso said. “With the current situation, parking for emergency response vehicles and search and rescue volunteers is severely affected by the overly congested parking at the trailheads.”
This month, national forest staff will begin installing ‘No Parking’ signs and increase public education efforts in the Eightmile Road corridor as traffic is displaced to other nearby areas that do not create public safety or facility capacity issues.
“The ‘No Parking’ restriction will affect the entire length of Road 7601. Signs will be posted at Bridge Creek and along the road itself to inform and remind visitors about this change,” Moscoso said.
“Safety of the public and our employees is the number one consideration in everything we do,” said District Ranger Jeff Rivera. It simply isn’t safe to allow folks to continue parking in such a way that limits emergency access and management. This action will reduce the public health and safety concerns that currently exist near and at both trailheads while continuing to provide access to resources and experiences that promote economic, ecological, and social vitality.”
The public will still have full access to public lands through Stuart Lake and Eightmile Trailheads, they just need to plan accordingly and arrive early or mid-week when it’s less crowded.
Those who can’t find parking at these trailheads when they are full can also park at one of several pull-outs that provide access for camping. “There is limited parking in the pull-outs, so people should have alternate plans in mind in case all parking areas are full,” Moscoso said. “It may behoove people to consider carpooling or having someone shuttle you to the trailheads to further reduce impacts and overcrowding. There are also other access points to other areas of the same Wilderness as well,” he added.
“Our staff will be interacting with forest users, explaining why these changes are occurring. Our intent is to focus on education and awareness this year, but we are prepared to issue tickets should that become absolutely necessary,” Rivera said.
“It’s important to take care of our natural resources by protecting them today to ensure they’ll still be here to provide for future generations,” Rivera added.
#EightmileRoad #StuartLake #Colchuck #Enchantments #TreadLightly
http://www.fs.usda.gov/goto/eightmile
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olderthanIusedtobe
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PostThu Aug 08, 2019 11:36 am 
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slabbyd wrote:
As far as resulting in crowds elsewhere, I gotta think a good percentage of Colchuck hikers are in the Colchuck or bust camp and aren't going to motivated for any Plan B.

I don't share that opinion.  It's only a matter of Plan B getting identified and popularized the same way Plan A was.
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fourteen410
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PostThu Aug 08, 2019 12:55 pm 
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joker wrote:
photos of a trashed  outhouse

I saw that post as well and this particular part bothered me. The outhouse wasn't trashed in the sense that people had pooped on the floor or graffitied the walls. It was just that the trash can was overflowing. That's an indication of poor FS staffing. Yes, I understand that hikers shouldn't add more trash to an overflowing can, but seems like the forest service is shifting the blame here. Send a FS employee/volunteer up there to take the trash out more than once a weekend and it won't look like that. The FS knows those trailhead outhouses are heavily used but doesn't seem to adjust maintenance accordingly.
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coldrain108
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PostThu Aug 08, 2019 12:58 pm 
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olderthanIusedtobe wrote:
It's only a matter of Plan B getting identified and popularized the same way Plan A was.

but there is no other place in WA that has that miniature High Sierra-like terrain that is so easily accessed - and swarmed with all their E-friends.  No poser wants their picture on FB standing in a place no one has ever heard of.  That defeats the whole purpose of hiking for "likes".  And no poser wants to have to spend 2 days hiking in the woods getting to the phenomenal scenery (those 2 days of approach would cause major FOMO anxiety).  Instant gratification (or at least less than 4 hours gratification) is the need of the day.

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RandyHiker
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PostThu Aug 08, 2019 1:09 pm 
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Looks like there is already a solution for instagram hikers headed for Colchuck

https://leavenworth.org/business/bavarian-e-bike-tours/
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