Forum Index > Stewardship > Crystal Geyser Co wants to tap Lewis Co aquifer
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Anne Elk
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PostSun Jun 09, 2019 8:08 pm 
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Crystal Geyser looking at Randle for bottling plant

Something similar happened in 2012 in Anacortes. The town council approved a proposal by Tethys Enterprises to build a bottling plant with a 500M gal/day renewable lease on water from the Skagit. Residents were not amused that the council didn't think seeking citizen input was relevant. That was after negotiations with Everett fell through to tap the same quantity from Spada Lake. How it played out, with a timeline, is here

Hopefully more far-sighted minds in Lewis County will see it for what it is: another move in the creeping privatization of water resources.

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MtnGoat
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PostMon Jun 10, 2019 9:16 am 
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Yeah, producing things people actually show they value by choice, via engaging in trade for them, is really creepy. The alternative where people are forced to accept what some neighbors unselfishly think they should value or else,  is much better.

Let 'em bottle.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Sculpin
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PostMon Jun 10, 2019 10:56 am 
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Crystal Geyser started with naturally carbonated water in Calistoga, California.  A few years back they stopped using the Napa Valley source they had been using.  They are tight-lipped about it, but I have it from reliable local sources that the arsenic went too high.  There was always naturally occurring arsenic in the Napa Valley, but it didn't get into the aquifers.  Then every square foot was bulldozed into vineyards,* then irrigated, and the arsenic leached into the water table.  So now they want Washington water I suppose.

*Mtn. Goat wants you to know that vineyards are freedom and it's better to bulldoze than to have government tyranny yada, yada, yada.  Just thought I would save him some typing.   winksmile.gif

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Anne Elk
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PostMon Jun 10, 2019 12:20 pm 
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MtnGoat wrote:
producing things people actually show they value by choice, via engaging in trade for them, is really creepy.

You totally missed my point.  Nothing wrong with commerce.  But would you not agree that the water sources of a local community belong to that community, for their purposes, and for the local fauna (the big one in WA for instance, salmon streams)?

While it may appear that western WA has "plenty" of water, that's not a given going forward.  These extraction contracts extend for years, and who knows if they contain clauses that might account for flow variables, etc.  On a related subject, there are stories on the web of municipalities who have sold their PUDs to private companies, to their (near immediate) regret.

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trestle
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PostMon Jun 10, 2019 12:36 pm 
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Quote:
Let 'em bottle.

Yeah, let 'em drink bottled water.  wink.gif

Corporations piping out the aquifers and despoiling ground water is such a great idea. Said only the corporations.

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MtnGoat
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PostMon Jun 10, 2019 12:53 pm 
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Said anyone buying the product.

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PostMon Jun 10, 2019 12:55 pm 
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Sculpin wrote:
Crystal Geyser started with naturally carbonated water in Calistoga, California.  A few years back they stopped using the Napa Valley source they had been using.  They are tight-lipped about it, but I have it from reliable local sources that the arsenic went too high.  There was always naturally occurring arsenic in the Napa Valley, but it didn't get into the aquifers.  Then every square foot was bulldozed into vineyards,* then irrigated, and the arsenic leached into the water table.  So now they want Washington water I suppose.

*Mtn. Goat wants you to know that vineyards are freedom and it's better to bulldoze than to have government tyranny yada, yada, yada.  Just thought I would save him some typing.   winksmile.gif

You didn't save anyone any typing, since when I post what I actually argue, I get it right. Your hostility to ideas you don't agree with doesn't serve your judgement well.

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Sculpin
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PostMon Jun 10, 2019 1:47 pm 
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Anne Elk wrote:
You totally missed my point.

No, he didn't miss it.  He even knows you are right.  He's just a troll.   shakehead.gif

He patrols the threads looking for folks expressing virtuous thoughts.  He can't stand the thought that someone might be more virtuous than he is, so he has to lash out.  Have you noticed that virtue is always equated with hypocrisy?  That's how you can tell.

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Even my best friends, they don't know, that my job is turning lead into gold. When you hear that engine drone, I'm on the road again, and I'm searching for the philosopher's stone - Van Morrison
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MtnGoat
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PostMon Jun 10, 2019 1:55 pm 
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I didn't miss anything at all. Fundamental disagreement is not 'trolling', it's merely disagreement.

Unless of course ones skills aren't geared to honest conversation with folks who disagree, then, calling disagreement 'trolling', is a great evasion method. (implication being, You don't need to address disagreement, it's not legit ...because it's just 'trolling').

As for the rest of the jumble, cogent arguments are better. If you intend to have a conversation, of course.

For spray and churn though, mere accusations suffice.. something we see your arguments continually exemplifying.

One last thing, I saw the word virtue in the rambling...but virtue is not public..it is what you do when no one can see and no one knows.

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Schroder
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PostMon Jun 10, 2019 2:03 pm 
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What those articles on Anacortes and Everett didn't make clear was that in both cases the proposal was to tap into utility water lines for already-treated water.  The pipeline on the Skagit starts at the treatment plant in Burlington and serves both Anacortes and half of Whidbey Island. The five pipelines along the Hiway 2 trestle are the City of Everett lines that originate at the treatment plant at Lake Chaplain and serve the entire population of South Snohomish County from Marysville to Seattle, west of Monroe.  They weren't paying for any infrastructure but just taking advantage of existing lines on systems that don't have far to becoming maxed out.
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MtnGoat
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PostMon Jun 10, 2019 2:06 pm 
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Anne Elk wrote:
You totally missed my point.  Nothing wrong with commerce.  But would you not agree that the water sources of a local community belong to that community, for their purposes, and for the local fauna (the big one in WA for instance, salmon streams)?

While it may appear that western WA has "plenty" of water, that's not a given going forward.  These extraction contracts extend for years, and who knows if they contain clauses that might account for flow variables, etc.  On a related subject, there are stories on the web of municipalities who have sold their PUDs to private companies, to their (near immediate) regret.

I would not agree.

You're arguing it should be local. OK. But local purposes are also commerce and trade. People's rights *also* extend to it's commercial use. So long as the terms are consistent with not running out of the resource, I don't see the issue.

I don't see anything in your linked article related to selling anyone's PUD to the bottlers.

I do appreciate your posting which contains actual arguments, rather than the attack churn driven by mere political animosity.

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Anne Elk
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PostMon Jun 10, 2019 2:29 pm 
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A couple things.  I started this thread intending to share info, since corporate acquisition of water rights is definitely an important community issue.  And the municipalities of some under-employed communities are desperate for a better tax base and believe that anything that's good for business is good for the community.  This is one area where that's not necessarily so.

MtnGoat disagrees per his free market assertions but hasn't addressed the substantive concerns I listed in any meaningful way.  But the ideological ad hominems aren't helpful and the retorts are starting to sound like sea-lioning, which I've seen a number of times in various threads.  Not productive "conversation".  C'mon people, we can do better than this.  shakehead.gif

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Anne Elk
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PostMon Jun 10, 2019 2:41 pm 
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MtnGoat wrote:
I don't see anything in your linked article related to selling anyone's PUD to the bottlers.

No.  I was just making reference to its occurrence elsewhere as a related issue.  See here:Water Privatization: facts and figures

Schroder - that's an interesting detail about the Everett & Anacortes proposals I'd never heard about.  Thanks for noting that.

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treeswarper
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PostMon Jun 10, 2019 5:42 pm 
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The only official "community" water is in downtown Randle.  From an article in the Chronicle it sounds like the area they are considering is on Peters Road.  Domestic water comes from residential wells in that area.  Maybe a few families might share a well.  No water company or utility exists there--it is rural. 

I would be interested to find out what kind of filter they would use.  The well water in that area has a fine, brown sediment to it.  I had a filter on my well outlet pipe, but sediment still got into the house system. 

As for noise and traffic?  If you look up the address in google maps, you will see an airstrip to the north of the road.  One of the residents there used to, and still might, take his plane up and did stunt flying over the area.  It was a bit annoying for the people below.   Port Blakely owns quite a chunk of land in the area and logs it.  Log truck traffic is normal.  You'll often hear the noise of a yarder working if they are on the hillside.   People are often target shooting, or just shooting.  Dogs are barking.  It isn't very quiet.

Let the folks in the area decide for themselves.  On another site, some people were saying that water is not a commodity.  Tell that to anybody who belongs to an irrigation district.  Tell that to me.   My water is metered and I pay for it.

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Anne Elk
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PostMon Jun 10, 2019 6:40 pm 
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Treeswarper wrote:
... Domestic water comes from residential wells in that area.  Maybe a few families might share a well.  No water company or utility exists there--it is rural.

I'd think this would be all the more reason for the nearby residents to be concerned, since the corporation proposes to tap the local aquifer.

Quote:
...Let the folks in the area decide for themselves.  On another site, some people were saying that water is not a commodity.  Tell that to anybody who belongs to an irrigation district.  Tell that to me.   My water is metered and I pay for it.

They should decide for themselves, but as detailed in the story about Anacortes, sometimes that's not the municipality's m.o.  In re water as a "commodity" - of course it is; but the question is, to whom does the local supply belong, and should it be ok for entities at a distance to privatize the supply and truck it away to sell for profit?  Paying for your metered water is beside the point - that's just what takes to fund the infrastructure & labor to deliver it; same way we pay for the police & fire dept, and roads, etc., anything we fund collectively for the benefit of all, right?

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