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Schroder
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PostFri Aug 17, 2018 1:46 pm 
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Will seismometers be in place before our volcano erupts?
Some object to placing equipment in the Glacier Peak wilderness and using helicopters to do so.
Article in the Herald

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The Forest Service is considering a 20-year permit for the USGS to put in and maintain new stations. Each would have a seismometer to measure ground movement, 10 batteries in a fiberglass enclosure with solar panels, and antennae for GPS and data transfer, according to a report from the Forest Service.

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Wilderness Watch, a nonprofit conservation group based in Montana, sent a letter in July opposing the use of helicopters. The Pilchuck Audubon Society also shared concerns. The Montana group argued that it goes against wilderness protection laws and would violate the wilderness.
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reststep
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PostFri Aug 17, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Yet they seem to have no objection to the use of helicopters to remove goats from Olympic National Park. Go figure.

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gb
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PostFri Aug 17, 2018 2:21 pm 
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Seems like monitoring Glacier Peak is over the top. The last big eruption was 11200 or 11300 years ago if studies that show the age of the thick pumice to the east of the peak are the relevant studies.

I'm going to cross my fingers, drop a knee and pray it doesn't get me.
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Schroder
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PostSat Aug 18, 2018 9:55 am 
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1,100 years ago. Threat potential listed as "very high" by USGS.
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Chief Joseph
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PostSat Aug 18, 2018 11:32 am 
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Hopefully I will be in Idaho next year when it blows  eek.gif

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reststep
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PostSat Aug 18, 2018 11:36 am 
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I found this quote on the above linked USGS Website to be interesting.

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All streams that drain Glacier Peak ultimately flow into the Sauk and Skagit Rivers;

I always figured some of the streams drained to the east but the Suiattle River does wrap a long ways around the mountain.

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"The mountains are calling and I must go." - John Muir
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FiveNines
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PostSat Aug 18, 2018 12:13 pm 
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Suiattle is selfish drain.
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gb
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PostSun Aug 19, 2018 7:14 am 
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This study in Quartenary Research by Porter shows the age of the great Pumice deposits of Glacier Peak to be greater than 11,250 years:

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Pumiceous tephra, resulting from multiple eruptions of Glacier Peak volcano in late-glacial time, mantles much of the landscape in the eastern North Cascade Range and extends eastward beyond the Columbia River as a thinner discontinuous deposit. Within about 25 km of the source, the tephra is divisible into as many as nine layers, distinguishable in the field on the basis of color, grain size, thickness, and stratigraphic position. Three principal layers, designated G (oldest), M, and B, are separated from one another by thinner, finer layers. Layer G has been found as far east as Montana and southern Alberta, whereas layer B has been identified as far as western Wyoming. By contrast, layer M trends nearly south, paralleling the crest of the Cascade Range. Available 14C dates indicate that the tephra complex was probably deposited between about 12,750 and 11,250 years ago. Glacier Peak tephra overlies moraines and associated outwash east of the Cascade Crest that were deposited about 14,000 years ago. Unreworked tephra occurs within several kilometers of many valley heads implying that major valley glaciers had nearly disappeared by the time of the initial tephra fall. Distribution of tephra indicates that the southern margin of the Cordilleran Ice Sheet had retreated at least 80 km north of its terminal moraine on the Waterville Plateau by the time layer G was deposited. Late-glacial moraines of the Rat Creek advance lie within the fallout area of layer M but lack the tephra on their surface implying that they were built subsequent to the eruption of this unit. Moraines of the Hyak advance at Snoqualmie Pass, which are correlated with the Rat Creek moraines farther north, were constructed prior to 11,000 14C years ago. The late-glacial advance along the Cascade Crest, therefore, apparently culminated between about 12,000 and 11,000 14C years ago and was broadly in phase with the Sumas readvance of the Cordilleran Ice Sheet in the Fraser Lowland which occurred between about 11,800 and 11,400 14C years ago.

About two years ago I found a more recent paper that described the age of those same pumice deposits as either 11200 or 11300 years. I was interested in the relationship to the deep erosional channel cut on the west side of Mt. Maude perhaps ten years ago. At the base of the cut two distinct and unmixed deposits of tephra were exposed which indicates that at this location this was the greatest rain erosion event since that age. This may have been the study I read at the time: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237174408_Age_distribution_and_stratigraphy_of_Glacier_Peak_tephra_in_eastern_Washington_and_western_Montana_United_States

There may have been more recent eruptions but the really big ones were those that deposited the tephra east of Glacier Peak.
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MtnGoat
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PostSun Aug 19, 2018 10:25 am 
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Chopper 'em in and git er done. If you can use choppers to save people in wilderness, you should be able to use choppers to save people outside it.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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RodF
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PostMon Aug 20, 2018 3:45 am 
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"Glacier Peak has experienced a number of eruptions since the end of the last ice age, including one eruption five times the size of Mount St. Helens." - EA page 22.

Total weight of each 1 of the 5 seismic stations is 1900 lbs. - EA pages 24, 26.  Wilderness Watch says "convenience is not a factor... the Forest Service should use stock animals or people to transport the required equipment".

I vote that helicopters not be used if Wilderness Watch volunteers to pack them in.  It will provide them an object lesson in what the term "minimum necessary" means.   Alas, NEPA says only "reasonable" alternatives should be considered, darn it.

There's a list of other things for them to complain about on EA page 77.  They already oppose grizzly bear reintroduction, and can fight  Milk Creek bridge, Bull Bear Trail and PCT maintenance!  We all know about Green Mountain Lookout, of course.

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Ringangleclaw
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PostMon Aug 20, 2018 10:07 am 
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MtnGoat wrote:
Chopper 'em in and git er done. If you can use choppers to save people in wilderness, you should be able to use choppers to save people outside it.

Yup.  This is a special situation
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RodF
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PostThu Sep 12, 2019 9:51 pm 
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"We’re Barely Listening to the U.S.’s Most Dangerous Volcanoes

"A thicket of red tape and regulations have made it difficult for volcanologists to build monitoring stations along Mount Hood and other active volcanoes.

"Mount Hood remains an active volcano — meaning that it will erupt again. And when it does, it could unleash mudflows not unlike those from Colombia’s Nevado del Ruiz volcano in 1985.

"Glacier Peak in northern Washington has produced some of the most explosive eruptions in the contiguous United States, meaning the ability to throw enough ash into the air to halt air traffic for days or even weeks and cost billions of dollars.  It has only one seismometer.

"Beyond Mount Hood, Mount Rainier near Seattle could also unleash viscous volcanic mudflows. There, 80,000 people live in the path of disaster and yet the mountain only has 19 instruments, which scientists say is not enough given its vast size.

"The Forest Service and the observatory could still face a legal challenge from Wilderness Watch or other groups that adds years to the installation, if not blocking it altogether.  'This is more proof that the Forest Service has abandoned any pretense of administering wilderness as per the letter or spirit of the Wilderness Act,' said Mr. Macfarlane, whose group is discussing litigation with an attorney but has not yet decided whether to file suit."

- New York Times, Sept. 9, 2019.

Good article.  Crazy WilderWatch.

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"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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MtnGoat
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PostFri Sep 13, 2019 10:57 am 
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Another example of the mindset that views people and their lives as an inherent problem for the Earth.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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