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Slugman
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PostSun Aug 25, 2019 7:17 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/aug/25/hiking-elk-driven-to-brink-colorado-vail

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"There is a pleasure in the pathless woods, There is a rapture on the lonely shore. There is society where none intrudes, By the deep sea, and music in its roar: I love not man the less, but nature more..."  Childe Harold
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Sculpin
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PostSun Aug 25, 2019 8:01 am 
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"If you’ve ever had a pregnant wife, and in the third trimester you chase her around the house in two feet of snow, you’ll get an idea of what she thinks about it"

huh.gif

I of course have no idea why there are less elk in unit 45.  But this article is...a bit off.  It refers to biologists and wildlife managers, plural, but somehow the journalist only got a quote from one guy.  I need more evidence that the elk are dying out because they see humans, panic, and flee their young.

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Even my best friends, they don't know, that my job is turning lead into gold. When you hear that engine drone, I'm on the road again, and I'm searching for the philosopher's stone - Van Morrison
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treeswarper
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PostSun Aug 25, 2019 8:22 am 
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I've been wondering when winter recreation would cause problems.  For those who doubt it, other activities have been banned in elk winter range for a couple of decades now.  Why would  people recreating in wintering grounds be any different harassment wise?   That, along with houses being built in winter range would affect wildlife.  It's a no brainer.   

Our state has another threat, the hoof deforming disease.  WSU just got a grant to "study" it.
Whatever, it looks like a horrible way to go for elk. 

https://vmp.vetmed.wsu.edu/research/elk-hoof-disease

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Slugman
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PostSun Aug 25, 2019 2:28 pm 
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The Guardian does have a history of posting egregious nonsense, but this looked fairly legit as far as it went. I agree that more would need to written about this before I bought in 100%.

I was wondering about our elk here, but the woods seem like better shelter for calves than the wide open country prevalent in much of Colorado.

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"There is a pleasure in the pathless woods, There is a rapture on the lonely shore. There is society where none intrudes, By the deep sea, and music in its roar: I love not man the less, but nature more..."  Childe Harold
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treeswarper
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PostSun Aug 25, 2019 4:47 pm 
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The elk on the eastside of the mountains in the Tieton Naches area, are fed hay during the winter.  That keeps them out of trouble.

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Malachai Constant
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PostSun Aug 25, 2019 10:59 pm 
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I see elk often near and in Olympic NP, MR NP , and other NPs . Perhaps they are spooked in areas where they are hunted.

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"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Gil
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PostMon Aug 26, 2019 7:51 am 
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This is only one herd in WA, but apparently it's doing well. https://www.kuow.org/stories/elk-rebound-in-western-washington-and-wolves-may-soon-follow

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treeswarper
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PostMon Aug 26, 2019 8:01 am 
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Malachai Constant wrote:
I see elk often near and in Olympic NP, MR NP , and other NPs . Perhaps they are spooked in areas where they are hunted.

They aren't hunted year round.  I think even the tribal hunting ends on December 31.  Western WA elk have a lot more hiding cover than elk in other parts of the country.  That's why so many hunters prefer to hunt on the east side of the state.

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kiliki
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PostMon Aug 26, 2019 8:12 am 
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I have a couple acquaintances that live in the Vail area. Development around Vail and Eagle has exploded. I've seen so many of their Facebook posts where they are running into moose, cougar, bear and elk when they are out running their dogs off leash on trails; or these animals are getting into their garbage; or they are seen grazing on the lawn of the condo complex; etc. Certainly no surprise at that human activities are going to have an impact on the wildlife in the area.
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Gregory
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PostMon Aug 26, 2019 8:24 am 
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We have areas all around the olympics where the gates are closed for the winter to give the wintering elk peace from humans.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/olympic/news-events/?cid=FSEPRD597375
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coldrain108
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PostMon Aug 26, 2019 8:44 am 
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Malachai Constant wrote:
I see elk often near and in Olympic NP, MR NP , and other NPs . Perhaps they are spooked in areas where they are hunted.

or where off leash canines run free...Thank God the NP's are dog free.

"startled by passing humans and their canine companions" is the phrase from the article.  A canine is a threat to an elk, it likely can't discern a domesticated pooch running free from a wolf coming to make a snack out of its young.

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NacMacFeegle
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PostMon Aug 26, 2019 8:49 am 
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Would agree that the article seems less than reliable, and is more than a little vague in its details. Titling it "Americans' love of hiking has driven elk to the brink, scientists say" is misleading when in the article itself it states:

Quote:
It’s increasing numbers of outdoor recreationists – everything from hikers, mountain bikers and backcountry skiers to Jeep, all-terrain vehicle and motorcycle riders.

Clearly they went for the most sensationalist title possible because it's more shocking to read that the lowest impact form of recreation is to blame for a problem. A more accurate title would have read something like: "Increasing outdoor recreation causing stress For Wildlife". There's also of course other factors such as increased development, climate change, among other factors to consider. Bottom line is that hiking is probably the least of the issues impacting elk populations. The article also mentions that people are violating area closures meant to protect wildlife, and that's an issue of rule violation and a lack of resources for enforcement, not the average day-to-day impact of recreation.

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RandyHiker
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PostTue Aug 27, 2019 5:10 am 
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treeswarper wrote:
The elk on the eastside of the mountains in the Tieton Naches area, are fed hay during the winter.  That keeps them out of trouble.

I believe the feeding stations along the Tieton are a measure to encourage the elk to remain in that area rather than migrate further down the valley and munch on orchards and vineyards.
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treeswarper
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PostTue Aug 27, 2019 7:00 am 
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RandyHiker wrote:
treeswarper wrote:
The elk on the eastside of the mountains in the Tieton Naches area, are fed hay during the winter.  That keeps them out of trouble.

I believe the feeding stations along the Tieton are a measure to encourage the elk to remain in that area rather than migrate further down the valley and munch on orchards and vineyards.

Yes, and that is what I meant by keeping them out of trouble.  Otherwise there would probably be a "special hunt".

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Pyrites
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PostTue Aug 27, 2019 11:12 pm 
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A discussion of elk response to trail use by ATV’s, bikes, hikers and horseback riders.

Best.

https://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/journals/pnw_2018_wisdom001.pdf
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