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RumiDude
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RumiDude
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PostThu Sep 26, 2019 2:13 pm 
A tangent of this topic and maybe worthy of its own thread is why are there still so many thru-hikers on trail at this date? There have always been a few straglers coming in to October but this year seems to have more than usual. I have a strong opinion about this. Feel free to bash me or my opinion. *bigishouldjustkeepmymouthshutgrins* The big snow in the Sierra Nevada slowed down many hikers, but there have been big snow years recently that did not produce this many late thru-hikers in Washington. The sheer numbers of hikers also could contribute to this. But I see another factor that I know will be controversial. It may trigger some anger as well. As much as is in me, I don't think that is any part of my intent. So here goes ... it's the Trail Angels. Let me explain. I have been a part of the long distance hiker community for several years. I have wanted to attempt a thru-hike of the PCT but sometimes life just got in the way. I have hiked almost all of the WA PCT and this year I hiked all of the OR PCT. I have lots of friends in the PCT and LDH (long distance hiker) community. I have participated on many of the discussion pages with thru-hikers, including the FB PCT class groups. All these connections has contributed to my conclusion that Trail Angels are becoming more of a hinderance than help. If a thru-hiker wishes to complete their hike from Mexico to Canada, one thing they need to do is limit zeros and time off the trail. But TAs encourage hikers to spend extra days sitting, partying, flipping, and just moving around in general. That results in time off the trail. Let me be clear, it is not TAs intention to hinder the thrus, but that is the unintended consequences of their actions. I saw this myself while hiking in Oregon. Hikers were continually getting off trail for one reason or another. I am not talking about for injuries, but for other things like spending some time with friends and family, etc. I can totally understand the draw of staying someplace a little longer. At Big Lake Youth Camp, all the amenities are absolutely free. Any place like that is like a vortex that draws people in and makes it more difficult mentally to get back out. And TAs facilitate that "vortex". If hikers had to hitchhike everywhere and pay for a room in town, they would be less likely to get off the trail so often and so far. I have said the last few years, half jokingly and half seriously, that TAs were killing the PCT. I still feel that way. It is time for TAs to back off and force the hikers to hike-their-own-hike. I may be wrong about TA contributing to this late season bubble of PCT thru-hikers here in Washington, but I think I am right. I don't have a solution because many TAs think they are vital to the hikers. Even many thru-hikers think the TAs are vital. And my prediction is thet the TA phenomenon is only going to get worse. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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neek
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PostThu Sep 26, 2019 2:20 pm 
Totally agree, that's why I rolled my eyes at the pop-up restaurant thing a few weeks ago. And you're right it will get worse since you can now instagram how awesome! you are. However people like Nancyann who are out there informing people and in some cases rescuing them are of huge benefit.

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BigBrunyon
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PostThu Sep 26, 2019 2:41 pm 
neek wrote:
Totally agree, that's why I rolled my eyes at the pop-up restaurant thing a few weeks ago. And you're right it will get worse since you can now instagram how awesome! you are. However people like Nancyann who are out there informing people and in some cases rescuing them are of huge benefit.
Agreed! The problem is those TA's in the southern reaches! The Californians! Providing temptations and potential pitfalls to the hikers under the cover of warm weather and endless summer days! Gotta ignore them. Don't fall into addiction and get behind! The TA's up here in the northern realms are about business! The Washingtonians! Encouraging hard schedules and competitive pushes, getting those forecasts out and performing the rescues! Adding way more value than pop up brew pubs trailside to cut into those premium hours of the long days of early summer.

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Kim Brown
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PostThu Sep 26, 2019 3:20 pm 
Good lord; the last thing the PCT needs is a poop-up restaurant. Fricken’ frackin’ hosers. It’s not the AT. If I were on the PCT and came across sh## like that, I’d be pissed. I’m on the PCT, leave me the f### alone.

"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area." Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Nancyann
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PostThu Sep 26, 2019 3:22 pm 
Points well made, Rumi and neek. The hiker I took down to Leavenworth on Tuesday had a broken foot due to a side trip climb he tried to do in Oregon. He also spent several days off the PCT river rafting. Most of the thru hikers I have met this year are young, high-functioning individuals who are used to setting ambitious goals, achieving them, and enjoying life to the fullest. Hopefully they will make it to Canada despite the upcoming challenges in weather. Thanks for your two cents worth, Big Brunyon, I always enjoy your perspective. Often thru hikers will try to thank me for being a trail angel and I always tell them I’m not, I just like to get out hiking all the time and keep running into folks that need help. I was a PCT thru hiker before the term was even coined, and benefited from “trail angels” help, so I’m just returning the favor. smile.gif

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Bernardo
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PostThu Sep 26, 2019 3:49 pm 
Agree Rumi has identified a change factor. I would say TAs and trail entrepreneurs are changing the experience, ruining it for some, making it far better for others. Things just don't stay the same. If it were up to me I'd leave the experience as it was, but change and "progress" are inevitable. And we aren't even talking about smart phones.

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hbb
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PostThu Sep 26, 2019 4:52 pm 
Malachai Constant wrote:
For what it is worth you can get updated spot weather reports on your inReach for $0.10 or so. I have used this feature on thru hikes fairly often.
WX2InReach is also a good option, particularly if you set up the outgoing request for a forecast as one of your presets.

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lopper
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lopper
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PostThu Sep 26, 2019 5:42 pm 
It would be wise to prepare for cold & wet. After all it is a Pacific CREST trail. In the early 70's we approached the Castle Pass portion from the East via Frosty Creek. It was early in the season (June) instead of late, but weather surprises were still in store. These two pictures were taken only a couple of hours apart....campsite near timberline below Mt Winthrop. During the next few days, on our way south to SR20 on the mostly snow-covered PCT we encountered two SB parties that were turning back to Manning.....no ice axes, no navigation confidence. It was part of the thrill to be off the grid. Woolen duds, SVEA 123 stoves, heavy boots......
73FrostyCamp1
73FrostyCamp1
73FrostyCamp2
73FrostyCamp2

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Riverside Laker
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PostThu Sep 26, 2019 7:52 pm 
neek wrote:
Apparently a lot of folks bounced up to Oregon to bypass heavy snow in northern CA this year.
Yes, many did. Those who didn't experienced a lot of snow in the Sierras and thus have some (spring time) snow experience. My buddy did that, but is getting very cold weather north of the Sierra on his last leg.

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jasonracey
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PostThu Sep 26, 2019 8:50 pm 
I just looked at the Chelan-Sawtooth wilderness forecast for this weekend and it's calling for temps in the upper 20's, sustained winds in the mid 20's, and over a foot of snow. I'd be excited to see a forecast like this in the middle of ski season. It's crazy for September. Someone carrying typical thru-hiking gear is not going to be prepared for these conditions.

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Adohrn
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PostFri Sep 27, 2019 1:07 am 
The trail angles probably don’t help, but I believe the problem is a bit bigger than just them. Back in the day to even attempt a big trail required a huge amount of research, planning and effort. This pretty much winnowed down the people attempting it to pretty much a small group of hard core individuals. Today we have guthook and books like Yogi’s which has dramatically lowered the bar for entry. This has resulted in a full range of hikers from the hardcore to the party crowd. Now mind you I have meet more than a few of the party crowd and quite liked them. It doesn’t mean for a second that I believe that this crowd as a whole is the best equipped to deal with late season conditions in the north cascades. The hikers you run into in late September and into October are disproportionately represented by the party crowd. This crowd most likely has a cell phone and Guthook for navigation. No maps, compass, spot, inreach, plb, dedicated gps or other GPS apps like gaia. So it would be really nice if Guthook had a few additional features. I know it’s a small company, so this is likely not ever to happen. Guthook is Pct centric with no real maps for the surrounding area. I would personally like it if Guthook would include various surroundings trails that would allow for bailing if needed. They could work with Nwhikers or Wta to identify to identify problem areas and trails that should be included. Have areas that provide consistent cell phone coverage marked on the map. I like that idea. Maybe have a crowd source feature in the app to do this. This would allow for updated weather forecasts, and ping cell phone towers so search and rescue would have a clue. As far as weather forecasts I use weather underground. Everyone is using something, but I have never devined any rhyme or reason to their choices. I personally have not run into people leaving towns without looking at updated forecasts. I have had problems trying to use the weather underground app on the trail. It won’t update and after a period of time without updating it tends to blank. So I use safari to open the forecast then (add to reading list) for offline viewing. It has a lot of adds and unnecessary graphics that in marginal reception areas makes it hard to download new forecasts.

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bk
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PostFri Sep 27, 2019 1:58 am 
Some PCT hikers (in separate instances) told me that they rely heavily, and listen carefully, to the locals for weather info. & hazards. They also mentioned that their memories of snow in the Sierras is in good weather-like conditions (warm, sunny, longer days?). So "snow" may not trigger an alert to them w/o also pointing out such things as "no sun" plus wet snow . . . and a forecast of 6-inches can mean 3-foot drifts. They did seem aware 6-inches could cover the trail . . . One bright PCT hiker (before knowing the snow forecast) had already planned on bailing at Hwy 2 in about ten more days . . . saying they had already done more than 2,000 miles . . . and that was good. Why make a big deal about it?

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ale_capone
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PostFri Sep 27, 2019 6:45 am 
Just as hikers reach Steven's pass,there are a few signs up for thru hikers. This would be a good spot to put a weather warning sign. I gave word of mouth info to 2 groups sunday based on GB's weather thread. One said they where aware of incoming weather. It was raining andTheir wet weather gear looked like the free ponchos they give you to ski in the rain... but I was wearing cotton trousers, so I cant talk.

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moonspots
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moonspots
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PostFri Sep 27, 2019 9:13 am 
Adohrn wrote:
As far as weather forecasts I use weather underground. Everyone is using something, but I have never devined any rhyme or reason to their choices.
Depends on what I want to know as to which app/website I use. For my phone, and general idea of "what's coming", I use the "darksky" app (which I read about in an issue of YachtWorld magazine). I can't confirm it's absolute accuracy, but it seems to be fairly close. At least out here on the northern prairies. And I used it in the North Cascades a couple of months ago, and it seemed to be "good" there also. If I want to know about the storm intensities (cloud tops, hail, storm direction/speed etc), I use intellicast, and the "radar summary". So that is my contribution to the discussion. Use as you see fit, or not.

"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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thunderhead
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PostFri Sep 27, 2019 10:08 am 
I would have thought in this day and age the unforgiving nature of the north cascades and their early winters would be well documented. Late September snow is not exactly a rare event, and cold prolonged rains are routine.

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