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Cyclopath
Faster than light



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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 9:03 pm 
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RumiDude wrote:
I don't think a person even needs to resupply at Harts Pass. Send a resupply to Stehekin. Six days (seven days max) from Stehekin to the border and back to Harts and out to cell service. It is generally easy to hitch a ride from Harts Pass. If going to Manning, it's even less. There really is no need to go to town to resupply.

RumiDude wrote:
Again, there is no need to resupply from the Suiattle River Rd.


Rumi

Ok but you were saying people don't need to hitch rides or depend on trail angles because of things like Lyft and Uber.  Replace Harts Pass then with Stevens, it's probably possible there because the road is at least paved, but prohibitively expensive to any thru hiker whose last name isn't Gates.

I was at the Mazama Store the weekend before last, a stranger borrowed my phone to contact a friend because his car broke down at Harts and he couldn't afford several hundred dollars for a tow.  (And T Mobile doesn't have service in Mazama.)

My point isn't specific to Harts, it's that Lyft and Uber aren't options for much of the trail due to remoteness.  There was a thread here last summer, somebody from out of state was coming to see the North Cascades, and hoped to find a ride to Marblemount, he wasn't able to find an Uber driver willing to do it, a forum member offered to for hundreds of dollars.  Almost everybody on this forum has a car, which means we're able to hike when we want where we want, within the constraints of our schedules.  Without a car, it's another story entirely.
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Pahoehoe
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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 9:08 pm 
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Cyclopath wrote:
There was a thread here last summer, somebody from out of state was coming to see the North Cascades, and hoped to find a ride to Marblemount, he wasn't able to find an Uber driver willing to do it, a forum member offered to for hundreds of dollars

Well you all kinda suck and I'm sorry I didn't see the thread because you can take public transportation to Marblemount.

The skagit bus system goes there 4 times on Tuesdays.
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slugsworth
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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 9:27 pm 
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As a class of 2018 thru hiker I can say, every thru hiker appreciates a ride from a trail head, it does not diminish the wilderness experience. . . Having to hear/see a road does that. Hitchhiking is the dominate way to get to town of you can't walk there.

Regarding where people do a resupply, get off trail, etc. . . I mean, sometimes people make dumb decisions, but they are their decisions and add someone else said hike your own hike.
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Tom
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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 9:38 pm 
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Pahoehoe wrote:
Cyclopath wrote:
There was a thread here last summer, somebody from out of state was coming to see the North Cascades, and hoped to find a ride to Marblemount, he wasn't able to find an Uber driver willing to do it, a forum member offered to for hundreds of dollars

Well you all kinda suck and I'm sorry I didn't see the thread because you can take public transportation to Marblemount.

The skagit bus system goes there 4 times on Tuesdays.

I don't recall they ever clarified where they were going (or mentioned Marblemount) or said they couldn't find an Uber driver.  Urban legend.

http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8027418
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Cyclopath
Faster than light



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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 10:14 pm 
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Thanks for finding that.  🙂

The night I turned 40, an evil doctor broke into my home and did illicit brain surgery, I can't even remember what I had for breakfast anymore let alone the specifics from a thread a year ago.  Everybody who's older than I am says it only gets worse.

Top of page 2, it looks like $800 was the price on offer.   eek.gif  My point is that I don't think services like Uber have brought us to a time when thru hikers can be self sufficient enough to do without the kindness of strangers.
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treeswarper
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PostFri Oct 25, 2019 6:05 am 
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Malachai Constant wrote:
treeswarper wrote:
Like, who is the boss of the hikers?  How would they, whoever they are,  stop them yo yoing?  I find this hilarious.  Will they take away their boots?  What is the "punishment" for such a heinous act?  No patch for you?  No stickers?

The PCTA issues a pass for the PCT which covers all the wilderness areas along the way. Without the pass you would need a permit for each separate WA. In many cases there is no ranger station issuing passes at the point the PCT goes from one WA to another. In many cases the areas have waiting lists and reservations Oregon this year will be restricting permits in Jefferson, Sisters, and other areas. If you yo-yo your permit becomes invalid and you have to reapply. Punishment is a fine and removal from the area at your expense.

This is just getting ......stupid.  The PCTA should quit having their send off party if they are worried.  I have done a few days of trail work with them but I didn't know they had such....stupid rules nor that they had any power.  Glad I don't support them now.

These people on the trail are adults.  I really don't care if they hike the whole trail, use other people's help, or not.  I do care if rescuing them becomes common.  Don't think it has, yet.  Okanogan County doesn't have a lot of money so they asked for folks to drive up to Harts Pass and ferry hikers down when that first storm hit.

The world is getting pretty sucky.

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What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Malachai Constant
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PostFri Oct 25, 2019 6:38 am 
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The PCTA has been delegated the power to issue thru permits by the FS and    the DOI they have no enforcement power. They have done this because people like some of the posters here and some environmental organizations and businesses have pressured them. I agree that it could be a fiasco if they force civilians to cross the High Sierra too early and the North Cascades too late because of a piece of paper.

Editorial comment some people dislike thru hikers because they have the time and strength to do it, the fun police. Just like people hate hippies, homeless, or loggers. We were never able to do it while working.

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neek
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PostFri Oct 25, 2019 6:38 am 
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treeswarper wrote:
This is just getting ......stupid.  The PCTA should quit having their send off party if they are worried.  I have done a few days of trail work with them but I didn't know they had such....stupid rules nor that they had any power.  Glad I don't support them now.

I don't think the PCTA makes or enforces laws, they just coordinate with various federal agencies.  If they didn't exist, hiking the PCT would be much more of a hassle.

treeswarper wrote:
These people on the trail are adults.  I really don't care if they hike the whole trail, use other people's help, or not.  I do care if rescuing them becomes common.  Don't think it has, yet.  Okanogan County doesn't have a lot of money so they asked for folks to drive up to Harts Pass and ferry hikers down when that first storm hit.

Yup.

treeswarper wrote:
The world is getting pretty sucky.

It's important we keep telling our kids this so they abandon all hope for the future.
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CC
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PostFri Oct 25, 2019 8:00 am 
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Roly Poly wrote:
Rumi, do you think the group leaving Stevens today has a good chance of getting to the terminus?  Weather looks good for a week.

They will probably have snow all the way so it's going to be a slog. Just north of Stevens there is 6 to 10" of wet snow on trail above 4100', except under dense cover and on south slopes.  They will get wet at some of the creek crossings, we had over 7" of rain last week at pass.  But except for a little rain today with high snow levels, weather still looks benign for the next week.

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RumiDude
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PostFri Oct 25, 2019 8:59 am 
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Cyclopath wrote:
RumiDude wrote:
I don't think a person even needs to resupply at Harts Pass. Send a resupply to Stehekin. Six days (seven days max) from Stehekin to the border and back to Harts and out to cell service. It is generally easy to hitch a ride from Harts Pass. If going to Manning, it's even less. There really is no need to go to town to resupply.

RumiDude wrote:
Again, there is no need to resupply from the Suiattle River Rd.

Ok but you were saying people don't need to hitch rides or depend on trail angles because of things like Lyft and Uber.  Replace Harts Pass then with Stevens, it's probably possible there because the road is at least paved, but prohibitively expensive to any thru hiker whose last name isn't Gates.

I was at the Mazama Store the weekend before last, a stranger borrowed my phone to contact a friend because his car broke down at Harts and he couldn't afford several hundred dollars for a tow.  (And T Mobile doesn't have service in Mazama.)

My point isn't specific to Harts, it's that Lyft and Uber aren't options for much of the trail due to remoteness.  There was a thread here last summer, somebody from out of state was coming to see the North Cascades, and hoped to find a ride to Marblemount, he wasn't able to find an Uber driver willing to do it, a forum member offered to for hundreds of dollars.  Almost everybody on this forum has a car, which means we're able to hike when we want where we want, within the constraints of our schedules.  Without a car, it's another story entirely.

Here's my point, people don't need to get off the trail (or at least far off the trail) in most of these places. There are a couple of exceptions, but even those can be easily worked around.  Much of the PCT is in remote areas not near towns. When I hiked the Oregon PCT this past summer I only came close to two towns the entire way, Ashland and Sisters. Ashland is about 12 miles or so from Callahan's where the PCT crosses I-5. Sisters is about 11 miles if I recall correctly. But a hiker doesn't need to go to town AT ALL because it is easy to resupply all along the PCT in Oregon at various places. Of course that means sending boxes.  And if one is going on into Washington, the PCT goes right into Cascade Locks.

The same is true for the entire PCT. In Souther California, the PCT goes near many towns, but that generally ends at Kennedy Meadows. After that there are still plenty of places to resupply, just not as many towns that are close to the PCT.

Some of these towns like Shasta CA are trying to become more hiker friendly by getting grants for shuttle/bus service to and from the PCT, encouraging businesses to consider PCT thru-hiker needs, etc. But trail angels undercut that effort. In order to get a grant, quantifying benefits and such is important. And businesses are not going to become hiker friendly.

There is a post on the PCT Class of 2019 FB group just last night: "Greetings I met a very nice young man in Ridgecrest. He had flipped down from Tahoe to Walkers Pass. He’s continuing south and should reach Hwy 58 near Tehachapi by Sat or Sunday. He is on his own as there are few hikers on the trail. If any Trail Angels near Tehachapi would like to reach out to him. I have his cell number. You can message me if you like" Someone stated upthread, "these people on the trail are adults". But you would not know that from posts like that.

I have read lots of blogs of thru-hikers, some of which have kept a very detailed accounting of their miles, expenses, zeros, nearos, etc. Most of them were shocked when they counted up theirzeros, nearos, off-trail nights (hotels, hostels, trail angel homes) they had accumulated. Most admitted they didn't need that much time. Time off the trail means arriving later in Washington and the resulting hand wringing (here and elsewhere) over the plight of thru-hikers unprepared for the early arrival of winter in Washington. And trail angels facilitate that time off the trail.

Finally to bring this full circle to your specific point about lack of transportation options in some places, I will offer up an example from this summer. A person asked on the PCT Class of 2019 FB page what was the easiest way to get from Cascade Locks to Portland. I pointed out that there was a daily shuttle bus to Portland that passes through Cacade Locks.  I linked to the page. The reply from the person asking was that they were looking for something less expensive. The cost of a one-way fare from Cascade Locks to Portland is $5. Yes, that is correct $5! What this person really wanted was a free ride that would take them directly to their friend's apartment in Portland. That same person posted again the next day and got their free ride. Good for them ... I guess. And why do people expect that? I think because they have been led to believe, by fellow hikers and trail angels themselves, that is the PCT way.

Rumi

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"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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Pahoehoe
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PostFri Oct 25, 2019 3:44 pm 
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So what.  It's all free will.  Adults making choices different than you would.  If someone wants to get off the trail everywhere they can, that's their prerogative.

If that flipper wants to give trail Angel's his phone number and they want to reach out they are adults.

Adults making choices that are theirs to make.
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neek
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PostFri Oct 25, 2019 3:58 pm 
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Free will is an illusion. It's just a bunch of particles bouncing around, one configuration determining the next. Anyway, I know what you mean. But is someone, say, wrapped up in the echo chamber of their social media circle really making their own independent choices? That's just an example to illustrate that yes, our behavior affects others, for better or worse (and presumably we all prefer to do good). Dunno where to draw the line in this case (to me, trail angels seem like a fairly benign phenomenon) but clearly there is some sort of line, fuzzy though it may be.
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Malachai Constant
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PostFri Oct 25, 2019 3:59 pm 
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Rumi who the hell are you to tell others how to hike their hike huh.gif

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Roly Poly
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PostFri Oct 25, 2019 7:06 pm 
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The group of 7 that left Stevens Pass on Wednesday have got lucky with the weather.  Clear all the way thru Friday and possibly beyond.
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MtnGoat
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PostSat Oct 26, 2019 12:23 pm 
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Cascade locks is a zoo on any given in season weekend and plenty busy on weekdays. I have a hard time imagining any buisness there even noticing the impact of a trail angel bringing free food for a few Thru hikers. That effing firebug lighting off the Gorge two years ago, that was impact.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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