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Michael Lewis
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PostSat Sep 28, 2019 6:53 pm 
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https://komonews.com/news/local/feds-again-seek-comment-on-north-cascades-grizzly-bear-plans-09-28-2019

Comment period is until Oct 24th. Article makes no mention of the location.

Personally I'm partial to option 4: if you build it they will come.

Opinions?
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uww
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PostSat Sep 28, 2019 7:14 pm 
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If a bear wandered onto a trail or into a logging area, he worries those places could be closed.

I worry if the bear did not wander out of the area, it would end up dead.
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Pahoehoe
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PostSat Sep 28, 2019 7:37 pm 
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Bring on the bears!  I'm in favor of option 1.  Release a few and monitor.
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Brushwork
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PostSat Sep 28, 2019 7:48 pm 
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I’m conflicted.    The ecologist part of me thinks it would be amazing to have grizzlies in the Cascades again.  Really amazing.
The self concerned/fearful/negative part of me is dubious it would work and concerned about my own experience of being in the mountains.   While a likely encounter would pretty slim, the idea that they could be around activates my general sense of fear.   But is that really more important than the possibility of having a more intact ecosystem?    Certainly their reintroduction would make the wilderness more wild.

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Cyclopath
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PostSat Sep 28, 2019 7:55 pm 
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We hike to be surrounded by nature on nature's terms.  Of course that should include majestic wild animals that are native to (aka belong) here.  If I wanted to go for a walk in a tamed nature-like setting, there's Discovery Park.
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slabbyd
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PostMon Sep 30, 2019 11:39 am 
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Ugh..the more I read that article the more irritated I get

Quote:
Today, Scott said there are probably 700 grizzly bears in Yellowstone.  "Clearly, grizzly bears and humans coexist there," he said.

Something like 25% of YSNP is permanently closed to human travel due to bears.  With another ~25% closed seasonally.

Quote:
"If a bear wandered onto a trail or into a logging area, he worries those places could be closed.   Joe Scott, the international programs director with Conservation Northwest, said that's unlikely to happen.  "Once this process is underway I don't think people will see any changes to their lives as we know them," he said."

While this quote is in reference to forest service land anyone who thinks NCNP won't close off significant portions of the park to avoid human-grizzly interactions is a fool.

Quote:

If grizzlies are brought to the Cascades, it will be the only population outside of the Rockies, he said.  "It's important from a species standpoint to have more distribution of the animal in case of disease breakouts or ecological disasters," he said.

Grizzly Bears exist throughout northern BC, Alaska and beyond. Pretty sure the Brooks, Alaska, Coat Range among others are not subgroups of the Rockies.   The entire Cascades Grizzly Recovery zone as defined adds something like 0.4% to their total habitat.


If you're Pro-Cascades-Grizzly that's great, I get that your desire for your more ideal ecosystem trumps your desire to access and recreate in those areas.  Or that you just really love bears.  But at least be honest about the actual value of doing so and the impacts it will most definitely have.
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Pahoehoe
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PostMon Sep 30, 2019 1:42 pm 
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slabbyd wrote:
If you're Pro-Cascades-Grizzly that's great, I get that your desire for your more ideal ecosystem trumps your desire to access and recreate in those areas.  Or that you just really love bears.  But at least be honest about the actual value of doing so and the impacts it will most definitely have.

Really?  My personal desire for my ideal ecosystem?  I didnt design the North Cascades.  I didnt put the original grizzly bears there, nor did I kill them off.

Dont forget what we learned from the yellowstone wolves.  Removing species from their natural habitats have consequences that might not be obvious.

And recreation happens in plenty of places with healthy grizzly populations...
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moonspots
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PostMon Sep 30, 2019 4:34 pm 
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Michael Lewis wrote:
https://komonews.com/news/local/feds-again-seek-comment-on-north-cascades-grizzly-bear-plans-09-28-2019

Comment period is until Oct 24th. Article makes no mention of the location.

Personally I'm partial to option 4: if you build it they will come.

Opinions?

My opinion is the same as yours, Michael. And after some searching, I found the link for comment submission: https://parkplanning.nps.gov/grizzlydeis

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"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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mb
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PostMon Sep 30, 2019 7:52 pm 
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Cyclopath wrote:
We hike to be surrounded by nature on nature's terms.  Of course that should include majestic wild animals that are native to (aka belong) here.  If I wanted to go for a walk in a tamed nature-like setting, there's Discovery Park.

Why not reintroduce them to Discovery Park? Surely they are native there too!

No Vaquero culture in Washington, but maybe something similar?
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/bull-and-bear-fights-california
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zephyr
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PostMon Sep 30, 2019 9:27 pm 
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Edit: More information added to this comment from last night.

The news article labels the choices numerically--1, 2, and 3.  They leave off the No Action choice.  The NPS document (North Cascades Ecosystem Grizzly Bear Restoration Plan/Environmental Impact Statement) lists all four choices as A, B, C, and D.  These are all explained in Chapter 2 of the document, see link.

Alternative A  Continuation of Existing Grizzly Bear Management (No Action)
Alternative B  Ecosytem Evaluation Restoration
Alternative C  Incremental Restoration
Alternative D  Expedited Restoration

I don't want to see grizzly bears re-introduced into the North Cascades.  But from attending one of the community meetings and listening to the agencies and advocates, it looks like this is going to happen regardless of the concerns of many of us.  So my choices would be in order of reducing the potential harm to humans.  Alternative A--No Action or Alternative B-Ecosystem Evaluation Restoration.

Michael Lewis wrote:
Article makes no mention of the location.

Michael, go to the E.I.S. (scroll down for Chapter 2 of the EIS), then page 24 for a lame map of the North Cascades with a few cities, towns, and roads marked.  There are four areas circled in red east and north of Darrington, etc.  These are the proposed Release Zones.  Maybe someone  could do a screen capture and post that map.

From the E.I.S. map I see 5 potential staging areas.  If I compare the E.I.S. map to Google Maps, it appears that one of them is near the junction of the Suiattle River Road and the Green Mountain Road.  Quote:  Grizzly bears would be transported from capture locations to release staging areas by truck.  Staging areas would be located in previously disturbed areas large enough for the safe landing of a helicopter, parking for a fuel truck, and any other grizzly bear transport and handling needs.  Then the E.I.S. goes on to describe the Release Sites.

Such playful tykes.  ~z

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zephyr
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PostTue Oct 01, 2019 8:23 am 
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Here is the form on the E.I.S. for submitting comments.  Note:  your comments are likely to be made public and become part of the record.  Here is a statement on the form:

Before including your address, telephone number, electronic mail address, or other personally identifiable information in your comments, you should be aware that your entire comment (including your personally identifiable information) may be made publicly available at any time. While you can ask us to withhold your personally identifiable information from public review, we cannot guarantee that we will be able to do so.
Edit:  Note down thread (on Page 2) where I included more information about the personal information.

From the E.I.S.:  Comment period closes Oct 24, 2019 at 11:59 PM Mountain Time

There is still another public meeting scheduled in Okanogan at the Fairgrounds Agriplex on Monday, October 7, 2019.  More info here. Quote:  Meeting participants will have an opportunity, through a lottery system, to provide up to two minutes of oral comment on the record.  ~z
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Ski
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PostTue Oct 01, 2019 8:47 am 
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yeah, well.... if you want to remain "anonymous", don't bother trying to respond to federal planning projects.

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
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PostTue Oct 01, 2019 8:48 am 
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I suspect that meeting might be a yell fest.  I am not going.  Postcards have been sent around urging people to go.  The local paper has urged people against it to go.  I am against the dumping of grizzlies into the N. Cascades  but I won't go as I suspect it'll turn into a rally for the Oxymoron named new state movement.  Maybe it'll be OK but I cannot handle meetings that get hijacked and turned into a conspiracy nut rally.

I once went to a meeting to try to find out why the state wanted to monitor private wells in Lewis County.  It was taken over by the conspiracy crowd and I learned nothing.  I walked out as did others.  It was a waste of time thanks to the folks named after a caffeinated beverage.

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zephyr
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PostTue Oct 01, 2019 8:57 am 
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Ski wrote:
if you want to remain "anonymous", don't bother trying to respond to federal planning projects.

Well, I wouldn't mind just having my name and hometown published.  But I don't see the value of having your contact information out there in this day and age.  I get more than I want of phishing phone calls and email already.  I included that caveat so that folks would know up front.

treeswarper wrote:
I suspect that meeting might be a yell fest.  I am not going.

When I saw where that meeting was posted, I immediately thought of you t.w.  And I can see your point.  ~z
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Ski
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PostTue Oct 01, 2019 9:01 am 
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the personal contact information isn't included in the public record..... just your name and city... at least from those comment records that I've read thus far.... and that's at least more than one or two as near as I can recall.

if you do want your personal contact information made available in the public record, include it in the message BODY.

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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