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JVesquire
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PostTue Oct 01, 2019 5:56 pm 
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Grizzly reintroduction, at least what NPS has been discussing when Zinke came to visit to talk about it, is a 100-year project. None of us will see the outcomes in our lifetimes, so the likelihood that you'll suffer a loss of access is minimal to nonexistent. I doubt there is any realistic possibility that NPS will have the funding or capability to begin an expedited reintroduction.
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CarriesNineFires
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PostTue Oct 01, 2019 6:26 pm 
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JVesquire wrote:
Grizzly reintroduction, at least what NPS has been discussing when Zinke came to visit to talk about it, is a 100-year project. None of us will see the outcomes in our lifetimes, so the likelihood that you'll suffer a loss of access is minimal to nonexistent. I doubt there is any realistic possibility that NPS will have the funding or capability to begin an expedited reintroduction.

This is definitely going to be the reality. The various departments involved are already hard-pressed to find funding for the most basic maintenance of trailheads, trails and other needs. Whether or not you support grizzly reintroduction you may rest assured that you will not come into contact with one of the devilish bruins because if it does happen it will be way down the line. So I think we should all assess this possible future of roaming griz not as it affects us but as it would play out over time.

And anyway, it's not about us: it's about the bears and the overall ecosystem.

I support prepping the forest for a return to a more natural state, through a combination of active and passive measures. I doubt that we need to bring back the grizzly but if we do then we'll adapt right along with the bears.

I don't think they'll do it, but if they do, well, I'm fine with that. Can't we agree to keep it interesting?
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Cyclopath
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PostTue Oct 01, 2019 7:29 pm 
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zephyr wrote:
Here is the form on the E.I.S. for submitting comments.  Note:  your comments are likely to be made public and become part of the record.

Thanks for posting this.  I just submitted a comment favoring expedited reintroduction.

Bizarre about the PII.  We could never get away with something like that at work.
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Brucester
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PostTue Oct 01, 2019 9:05 pm 
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It seems like people want more wild animals....

Just read about a woman who climbed into a lion exhibit at the Bronx Zoo and a couple who got gored separate times by bison trail running?

More bears please! And wild Washington bison?
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treeswarper
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PostWed Oct 02, 2019 6:30 am 
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Brucester wrote:
More bears please! And wild Washington bison?

Talk to the tribes.  Were bison ever here in the first place?  I remember going to see some domestic critters in the Monitor area.  Monitor is just up the Wenatchee River a bit from Wenatchee.

Local tribes have brought in antelope.  Meanwhile they have a tribal hunting season for wolves.

Moose are wandering in on their own.  Apparently they are better than grizzly bears at when it comes to wandering.

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PostWed Oct 02, 2019 6:32 am 
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Moose are more dangerous than grizzlies.
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treeswarper
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PostWed Oct 02, 2019 11:37 am 
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Moose are tasty to eat.  I doubt bear is as good to eat.  Mmmmmm, moose.

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Slugman
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PostWed Oct 02, 2019 11:51 am 
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Bear paranoia now mixing with anti government paranoia. Noxious brew.

A couple of notes: the reason for comments and their authors being public is to counter any notion that the deck is being stacked with phony comments, or the same person submitting a large number of comments.

Glacier NP has grizzlies, the park has not been shut down.

PS: the comment about anti government paranoia is not aimed in any way at zephyr, they simply raised a potential concern. No, it is aimed at mb who "thinks" there is grizzly habitat at Discovery park, and that  bullfights in California are somehow relevant, and to slabbyd who is irritated by things that only exist in his/her head. And if you do not share the delusion, you are a "fool". Right.

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treeswarper
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PostWed Oct 02, 2019 7:04 pm 
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Slugman wrote:
Glacier NP has grizzlies, the park has not been shut down.

Not the whole park, but they have shut down areas of the park when it seems like there may be a hazard (bears).

Plus, the Provincial Parks to the nort, have areas where you cannot hike alone because of the danger of running into old Griz.

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Pahoehoe
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PostWed Oct 02, 2019 7:50 pm 
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They should get those grizzlies out of the parks so the humans aren't inconvenienced.

Humans should always have top priority on public land over pesky bears and other animals.  It is OUR public land, you know.
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mb
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PostWed Oct 02, 2019 8:01 pm 
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Slugman wrote:


PS: the comment about anti government paranoia is not aimed in any way at zephyr, they simply raised a potential concern. No, it is aimed at mb who "thinks" there is grizzly habitat at Discovery park, and that  bullfights in California are somehow relevant, and to slabbyd who is irritated by things that only exist in his/her head. And if you do not share the delusion, you are a "fool". Right.

Not *is* griz habitat. *Was* probably griz habitat.  I was just letting my mind wander based on the "if you're afraid of bears go to this kinda-natural-because-it-was-a-military-base park in the city".

Predators have been returning to cities, thanks to our improvement of the general environment over the past few decades. That includes habitat (e.g. plant) improvement, pollution reductin, and limits on hunting. For example, Mountain Lions are over much of California--LA and the San Francisco areas have them. There's been several sightings of them *in* the city of SF recently. And of course Coyotes are everywhere in the US now.

These same places (including both NCNP and Seattle) once hosted grizzly. They were, as far as I know, everywhere in the west.

This predator escalation *is* happening. It is encouraged by government policy. I even think habitat-as-policy makes sense; flying-bears-in less so.

Is it some conspiracy to destroy rural people? Not likely. But there are some people who think 'animals good, nature good, people bad'. And others who think 'people good, animals bad'. Both with plenty of uninformed idealism. Conflict!
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Ski
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PostWed Oct 02, 2019 8:31 pm 
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Pahoehoe wrote:
"Humans should always have top priority on public land..."

That would depend upon exactly which "public land" you are referring to.
The opening line of the founding legislation which created Olympic National Park reads "For the benefit and enjoyment of the people...", so in the case of Olympic National Park, "the people" do have (by Congressional mandate) top priority. (The "flora and fauna" are mentioned in the second line, which gives them a lower priority level.)

Your attempt at facetiousness was not missed, but I felt it appropriate to point out that in some cases, humans do in fact have priority over animals or plants.

treeswarper, responding to Slugman's comment about '...the park has not been shut down...'  wrote:
Not the whole park, but they have shut down areas of the park when it seems like there may be a hazard (bears).

There are all kinds of areas that are shut down for grizzly bears (and other animals) for various reasons.
The Crowell Ridge Trail and the immediate surrounding area (near Gypsy Peak) is closed in the fall for a period of time for "grizzly bear habitat".
There's no reason to think that there would be no closures of areas (seasonal or otherwise) within NCNP for grizzly bears in the future, unless it's been clearly stipulated in the management plans that won't happen.

mb, referring to the grizzly bear's historic habitat range wrote:
They were, as far as I know, everywhere in the west.

Not on the Olympic Peninsula:

The National Park Service wrote:
The wildlife community of the isolated Olympic Peninsula is also unique. This community is noteworthy not only for its endemic animals (found only here), but also for species missing from the Olympics, yet found elsewhere in western mountains. Pika, ptarmigan, ground squirrels, lynx, red foxes, coyotes, wolverine, grizzly bears, bighorn sheep and historically, mountain goats, did not occur on the Olympic Peninsula.


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zephyr
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PostThu Oct 03, 2019 10:25 am 
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Ski wrote:
the personal contact information isn't included in the public record..... just your name and city... at least from those comment records that I've read thus far.... and that's at least more than one or two as near as I can recall.

Thanks, Ski. 

Cyclopath wrote:
Bizarre about the PII.  We could never get away with something like that at work.

 
Slugman wrote:
A couple of notes: the reason for comments and their authors being public is to counter any notion that the deck is being stacked with phony comments, or the same person submitting a large number of comments.

Okay,  I made some phone calls and had a conversation with a National Park spokesperson in Sedro-Wooley.  Also I looked at that Comment form more closely.  The only required information in that form is marked with an asterisk (*).  Those would be:  City, State/Territory, and Postal Code.  So you can put as much or little of the personal information as you want in there.  You can even put "Anonymous" for the name if you like. 

If I understood her correctly, even then any personal information that you included would only be made public record if an organization filed a FOIA request down the road.  So feel free to comment and express your concerns or enthusiasm as you will.  This is open until October 24.   ~z
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Ski
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PostThu Oct 03, 2019 10:59 am 
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^ In over 30 years of submitting comments to NPS, USFS, USFWS, BLM, WDFW, and DNR, I have yet to receive one phone call, one letter, or one email as a direct result of my entering my full name, mailing address, zip code, phone number, and email address into the "public comment record" on any project proposals.

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zephyr
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PostThu Oct 03, 2019 11:10 am 
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Good to know.  Thanks, ~z
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