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Schroder Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 6696 | TRs | Pics Location: on the beach |
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Schroder
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Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:07 pm
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Article from WTA published in the Herald today:
Stinky situation: Managing toilets in the wilderness a problem
Quote: | decades of budget cuts have wreaked havoc on wilderness infrastructure, creating problems with no easy solution. Managing poop, it turns out, is one of those problems.
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White Pass, like in many areas around the state, land managers are running out of places to relocate backcountry privies. Chronic funding cuts to public lands, coupled with a burgeoning interest in visiting our state’s backcountry, are compounding the problem.
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Forest officials hopes the pack-out program will take pressure off of the pit toilet system |
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NacMacFeegle Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2014 Posts: 2653 | TRs | Pics Location: United States |
That new toilet design that they're talking about could really solve a lot of problems, though I'm not entirely clear on how it works based on the description. I definitely don't think that the solution is to have people pack their own waste out - I can't imagine that many people would go along with such a program. Really, the problem boils down to the fact that public lands need to be adequately funded.
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Cyclopath Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 7694 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:08 pm
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I agree that compliance would be low.
We have a rule like this for dogs, and we have thousands of plastic-wrapped poop cairns lining the side of hundreds of trails.
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Gwen LO Girl-of-the-Month
Joined: 14 Feb 2010 Posts: 1673 | TRs | Pics
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Gwen
LO Girl-of-the-Month
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Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:10 am
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NacMacFeegle wrote: | public lands need to be adequately funded. |
Congress doesn't fund for recreation and MBSNF is nothing but recreation. Talk to your congressperson.
Tomorrow's not promised to anyone, so be bold, scare yourself, attempt something with no guarantee of success. You'll be amazed at what you can achieve. -Olive McGloin
Tomorrow's not promised to anyone, so be bold, scare yourself, attempt something with no guarantee of success. You'll be amazed at what you can achieve. -Olive McGloin
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timberghost Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Posts: 1316 | TRs | Pics
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There is a concerted effort by the USFS to install new ones in many areas currently.
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cdestroyer Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2015 Posts: 1249 | TRs | Pics Location: montana |
just an off the cuff idea open to discussion... pay per hike...make a donation to help fund the privies...??
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Randito Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 9495 | TRs | Pics Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:58 am
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Repurposing another saying
Labelworks
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treeswarper Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11272 | TRs | Pics Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:09 am
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Somebody on this forum has had a good solution-- Immodium AD or whatever it is, dispensers at trailheads. Educate people to eat low fiber meals prior to and during their visit. No beans or bran!!
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Cyclopath Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 7694 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:19 am
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I think requiring people to take Immodium AD would have better compliance. It would also cut down on selfies because everyone would be so uncomfortable! 😆
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coldrain108 Thundering Herd
Joined: 05 Aug 2010 Posts: 1858 | TRs | Pics Location: somewhere over the rainbow |
I found 2 brand new- as in they still smelled like fresh cut cedar - crappers in the ONP this summer. Made for a very pleasant morning.
Since I have no expectations of forgiveness, I don't do it in the first place. That loop hole needs to be closed to everyone.
Since I have no expectations of forgiveness, I don't do it in the first place. That loop hole needs to be closed to everyone.
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Dharmabum Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2014 Posts: 58 | TRs | Pics Location: University Place, WA |
I really don't understand what's so difficult about properly pooping in the woods. Go off trail away from water sources. Dig a hole at least 6" deep. Do your business. Cover it up ....done.
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kvpair Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2018 Posts: 118 | TRs | Pics Location: Sammamish |
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kvpair
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Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:17 am
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Isn't this partly an engineering problem?
(1) We'd like composting toilets - no? For example, if we could break down poop in a week (just an example), we'd be good, correct?
(2) Composting requires high temperatures for the bacteria to do their job well, hence we need to supply a source of warmth for the microorganisms and ensure an adequate supply of the same at toilets.
(3) Hikers carry in "pods" of the microorganisms and add them to the toilets.
(4) [OPEN] How do we add heat to the toilet so that decomposition is maximized?
Don't we have enough engineers on this list to get a hackathon together?
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Schroder Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 6696 | TRs | Pics Location: on the beach |
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Schroder
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Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:27 am
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Dharmabum wrote: | I really don't understand what's so difficult about properly pooping in the woods. Go off trail away from water sources. Dig a hole at least 6" deep. Do your business. Cover it up ....done. |
The big problem is in alpine areas, above the treeline.
Mt Pilchuck lookout area is really getting bad. There is no toilet and people are doing their business in the rocks just below the lookout. I'm expecting one of these days to put my hand in the middle of something as I scramble up the rocks. This lookout also wasn't intended for overnight use when it was rebuilt, but the lookout and the summit area are now seeing a lot of camping.
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Randito Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 9495 | TRs | Pics Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:33 am
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The NPS has a composting toilet in Summerland. Composting toilets are also used at several campsites in the San Juan's. Composting toilets are good solutions. However composting toilets have a finite capacity, which also diminishes with altitude. So for example the toilets at Camp Muir are barrel toilets that depend on helicopter lifts to remove the full barrels and bring in empty barrels. In areas where they make sense, they still need periodic maintenance. Composting does dramatically reduce the volume, but someone still needs to shovel out the compost periodically and place it where it will positively affect the environment. That's likely a paid job, not a volunteer job.
When usage frequency is low enough, yeah, each person stepping off the trail 75 feet and depositing in a cat hole works fine. But once a location gains popularity, the areas around established campsites , everywhere one might dig a cat hole, already has a recent deposit.
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drm Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 1376 | TRs | Pics Location: The Dalles, OR |
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drm
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Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:49 am
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The idea that national parks can afford helicopter rides for our poop must elicit shaking heads from those who work for national forests.
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