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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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PostTue Aug 31, 2021 10:07 am 
bk wrote:
Also, if using my iPhone GPS...it's battery will go from 60% to 0% in the snap of a finger in cold weather (unless its hooked up to an external charger, and kept close to my torso in an inside pocket).

I use a watch.  The battery can run GPS for several days.  It's heated by my body, so this isn't a concern.  As a bonus, it can tell me the time.  😁

bk
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zimmertr
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PostTue Aug 31, 2021 11:57 am 
Cyclopath wrote:
I use a watch.

My Garmin Fenix 6x lasted the first 8 days of Wonderland on a single charge with my custom power management settings. I recorded every single step I took via the GPS & even left the heart rate monitor on. Temperature was as low as 37°.

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Schroder
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PostTue Aug 31, 2021 12:08 pm 
zimmertr wrote:
I thought it was well written as well. A great morning coffee story.

I thought the criticism of the current SAR system was unfounded and stated without offering an alternative.

ChanceShowers, Anne Elk, dave allyn, zimmertr
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zimmertr
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PostTue Aug 31, 2021 12:14 pm 
Schroder wrote:
zimmertr wrote:
I thought it was well written as well. A great morning coffee story.

I thought the criticism of the current SAR system was unfounded and stated without offering an alternative.

I can agree with this. I'm not sure my critical thinking hat was on just quite yet when I read the story. I do, however, remember the author shared Ron Goins' perspective on the matter though. Part of which did praise Washington's SAR system.

Quote:
For 20 years, Ron Goins has worked with county search and rescue in Western Washington in one form or another. He’s proud of what the volunteers do. He’s a staunch defender of Washington’s system calling it the best in the country “by a mile.”

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contour5
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PostTue Aug 31, 2021 12:18 pm 
Maybe I’m reading too much between the lines, but I think the unspoken alternative would be more funding for search and rescue rather than sit back and watch as bounty hunters and mercenaries take over the process.

rbuzby
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rbuzby
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PostTue Aug 31, 2021 2:04 pm 
In the last couple years a lot of criticism of local SAR has come from a guy who wants a full time paid job looking for remains, so he offers a narrative that says '"Isn't it awful how the "authorities" leave your  loved one up there instead of searching for them until remains are found?"

The same guy claimed the Forest Service was stopping him and others from "rescuing" a missing hiker who had been missing for 30 days already and was presumed deceased.  They spread that lie, and raised money off it. They said the Forest Service cared more about fragile plants than a "human life".

That's some of the background behind the "criticism" of SAR.

Eric, day_hike_mike, Mountainfisherman, Anne Elk
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pula58
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PostTue Aug 31, 2021 3:14 pm 
I wish someone else had found Rachel's remains. I'll leave it at that.

So sad that she perished. RIP.

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RumiDude
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PostTue Aug 31, 2021 3:27 pm 
Sculpin wrote:
She was found by Sam Sayers boyfriend!

zimmertr wrote:
It was interesting to hear more about Bud Carr as well. I remember the animosity towards during the search for Sam Sayers. A lot of people believed him a con man.

I think this is a lesson in not making harsh judgements without actual evidence. A lot of what happened with the Sam Sayers search and maybe in this one as well was wrong and done out of desperation. There was and still is a lot of speculation about Kevin Dares and Bud Carr. I think all this speculation is almost certainly nonsense.

I agree with Schroder, I am not sure the article in the Spokesman even addressed what the questions are that were raised by this recovery.

Rumi

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"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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Schroder
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PostTue Aug 31, 2021 3:51 pm 
To offer some information to those that don't know how Search and Rescue works: under Washington State Law SAR is the responsibility of local law enforcement, using the state Department of Emergency Management to coordinate when multiple agencies are involved. The local Search and Rescue units are nonprofit, volunteer organizations that are called upon by law enforcement. It's been this way since the early 1960's, when it was formally laid out. I believe every state follows this structure. National Parks usually have their own SAR teams.

The law is simple

Quote:
RCW 38.52.400
Search and rescue activities—Powers and duties of local officials.
(1) The chief law enforcement officer of each political subdivision shall be responsible for local search and rescue activities. Operation of search and rescue activities shall be in accordance with state and local operations plans adopted by the elected governing body of each local political subdivision. These state and local plans must specify the use of the incident command system for multiagency/multijurisdiction search and rescue operations. The local emergency management director shall notify the department of all search and rescue missions. The local director of emergency management shall work in a coordinating capacity directly supporting all search and rescue activities in that political subdivision and in registering emergency search and rescue workers for employee status. The chief law enforcement officer of each political subdivision may restrict access to a specific search and rescue area to personnel authorized by him or her. Access shall be restricted only for the period of time necessary to accomplish the search and rescue mission. No unauthorized person shall interfere with a search and rescue mission.
(2) When search and rescue activities result in the discovery of a deceased person or search and rescue workers assist in the recovery of human remains, the chief law enforcement officer of the political subdivision shall insure compliance with chapter 68.50 RCW.

rbuzby, car68, Kim Brown, dave allyn
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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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PostTue Aug 31, 2021 4:46 pm 
zimmertr wrote:
My Garmin Fenix 6x lasted the first 8 days of Wonderland on a single charge with my custom power management settings. I recorded every single step I took via the GPS & even left the heart rate monitor on. Temperature was as low as 37°.

Great minds think alike.   smile.gif

I use the turn by turn directions on the bike, sometimes because I need them, also to be familiar with how to use that feature.  It routes along trails.  The map is a little cumbersome to use, but it's good to have this as a back up.

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Anne Elk
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PostTue Aug 31, 2021 4:54 pm 
RumiDude wrote:
There was and still is a lot of speculation about Kevin Dares and Bud Carr. I think all this speculation is almost certainly nonsense.  ... I agree with Schroder, I am not sure the article in the Spokesman even addressed what the questions are that were raised by this recovery.

The bottom line, as Schroder's subsequent post makes clear, is that the local LE authorities are the lead and coordinators, but the search teams on the ground are volunteers; ie, mostly people who have full time jobs elsewhere.  What you have with someone like Bud Carr, which was apparent to anyone who followed the details of the Sayers disappearance, is someone who is willing to be marginally employed so they can devote time that conventional SAR volunteers cannot. One feels glad that the Lakoduk family has closure, but much grandstanding will come of this. I guess that's a rephrasing and agreement with what rbuzby and contour5 said, above.

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"There are yahoos out there.  It’s why we can’t have nice things."  - Tom Mahood

rbuzby
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Tom
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PostTue Aug 31, 2021 6:03 pm 
As far as GPS, weather is not a factor.  Almost all phones have a GPS.  Does your phone run out of battery in a snap of a finger when you pull it out in cold weather? lol.gif  Yes, your phone will run out of battery, most likely due to other usage.  There are plenty of apps that will let you download a high resolution topo of where you are going so that you can see exactly where you are on your phone if need be.  No, it should not be your primary navigation tool.  But it can be very helpful in challenging situations.  I can attest yesterday navigating in a whiteout, occasionally consulting the topo on my phone to make sure I was staying on course to thread a needle on a high ridge.

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DadFly
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PostTue Aug 31, 2021 6:22 pm 
To anyone who would criticize the SAR organizations, what they need are more well trained volunteers and money to support training and team rescue gear. All of the SAR units in Washington are 100% funded by private donations. There is always a sheriffs deputy overseeing the missions but that is from the County budget. SAR volunteers provide their unpaid time, all personal gear and commit to being available for at least 40 hrs of training and five missions each year.

If more of the people on this site volunteered and or made monetary contributions to their local SAR organization those SAR organizations would be better off.

The question of "did they give up too soon?" should bounce right back with "why weren't you in a SAR organization and ready to help?"

Popping up and saying "I'll help!" in the moment, with no training is a recipe for disaster. In SMR we trained over and over with every single person learning every station so we all knew exactly what the other person was going to do. We set up and followed carefully vetted and planned search patterns with team oriented members. We exercised clear judgement observing the first rule of SAR, "Do no harm to yourself or others."

So jump up and volunteer now! Do the training. Send the check. Do what you can to help make SAR a better organization.
Please do not discredit or question the efforts of the volunteers who may well carry you out some day on their own time.

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"May you live in interesting times"

EJ, car68, rbuzby, Chief Joseph, dave allyn
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fn1889m
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PostTue Aug 31, 2021 6:48 pm 
“ There are plenty of apps that will let you download a high resolution topo of where you are going so that you can see exactly where you are on your phone if need be.  No, it should not be your primary navigation tool.”

I use a such an app together with a GPS enabled phone, backup battery, and a similar 7.5 USGS paper topo map and compass. It’s a pretty good system. I can locate and track a snow covered trail with the GPS and map. It’s amazingly accurate for a $4.99 app and a 2nd hand iPhone 8.

Despite that, there have been moments when an obscure trail did not match the map and it took a while…

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bk
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PostTue Aug 31, 2021 7:14 pm 
Tom, my example was with no apps running, in battery-save mode, airport mode . . . cold weather.

"snap of a finger" can be 60 seconds....30 seconds....or next time it is taken out to be turned on. (Obviously my notes of my experience are not an official benchmark of performance.)

Good that yours has worked well for you.

Articles describing cold-weather iPhone battery issues:
https://www.appledystopia.com/tech-tips/iphone-tips-cold-weather-page-1/
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/518365/how-keep-your-iphone-bricking-cold-weather

Maybe newer iPhones with fresher batteries work better. That makes sense, one would hope.

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