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Bootpathguy
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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 6:55 am 
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For folks with bearanoia


Seems to me, if your not familiar with either choice, you could be in trouble if you encounter one.

Issues with both are...

Remove from hip, take off safety, distance, wind direction, aiming, expiration date



"Is there an ideal way to defend yourself in the event that the interaction takes a turn for the worst?

"Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks Region 4 Supervisor Gary Bertellotti says there is.

“Bear spray is an effective tool to deter grizzly bears, black bears, or any other animal that may be approaching or attacking,” Bertellotti said"



"Gun-store owner and bear-spray-seller Tom VanHoose says otherwise.

“It has some benefit but if you’re betting your life on the bear being warded off with the bear spray, good luck,” VanHoose said"

https://www.kpax.com/news/montana-news/bear-spray-or-bullets-staying-safe-in-grizzly-country

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Mikey
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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 7:31 am 
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In the link it shows:
Gun-store owner and bear-spray-seller Tom VanHoose says otherwise.
“Bear spray has some benefit but if you’re betting your life on the bear being warded off with the bear spray, good luck,” VanHoose said.   He argues bear spray is essentially the same as pepper spray. “Bear spray, pepper spray. All the same thing,” VanHoose said.   
However, Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks Region 4 Supervisor Gary Bertellotti contends that while bear spray is a form of pepper spray, it's more reliable since it’s FDA-approved.   “Pepper spray is not FDA approved, but bear spray is,” Bertellotti said. “It’s been certified by the FDA and has a certain concentration of pepper in it, whereas pepper spray- you never know what you’re gonna get.”

I am not able to find anything about the US Food & Drug Administration approving bear sprays.   About 75% of the FDA's budget comes from pharmaceutical companies.  The FDA administrator said that FDA's primary goal is the economic health of the US drug industry.  I have looked at FDA reviews of applications and their approval findings (they are posted on the internet) and they are scientifically weak.
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catsp
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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 8:00 am 
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EPA, not FDA, I believe.
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Pahoehoe
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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 8:02 am 
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Gun talk in the gun thread, please.

Science has spoken on this subject.
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catsp
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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 8:19 am 
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Pahoehoe wrote:
Science has spoken on this subject.

Yep.

Shoot or Spray? The Best Way to Stop a Charging Bear.

Oops, wait a minute...

Does Bear Spray Work?


Bootpathguy wrote:
Seems to me, if your not familiar with either choice, you could be in trouble if you encounter one.

Not necessarily...

Man Attacked by Black Bear Kills It With an Axe.
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RandyHiker
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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 8:52 am 
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My elder sister managed a team of field biologists in Alaska for the USGS before she retired.   They carry both spray and a double barreled shotgun loaded with a single lead ball with a magnum powder charge.   The biologists take a multi day firearm training course that involves practice sessions with a bear outline target mounted on a cart that is drawn toward the trainee at 35 mph.  Most folks miss the target a bunch of times before this practice improves their skills.

The firearm training sessions and the requirement to carry a firearm was optional for a long time, until one of her biologists got mauled.  She then made both mandatory.

When she visits Washington and we hike in the North Cascades, she carries niether.
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Nancyann
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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 10:30 am 
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In early October, we had an interesting half hour long conversation with a hunter from Tonasket we met on the Windy Peak Trail. He asked us if we carried any protection, because he had just encountered a cougar. He carried a hunting rifle, a revolver and a can of bear spray on his belt. We had a long conversation about which worked best for him, and he said all you need is the bear spray, because it can be deployed the fastest, and is very effective. He claimed he used it on a grizzly in Idaho and it stopped it in its tracks.
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treeswarper
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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 10:52 am 
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For the Klamath bears, which are larger black bears, I was advised to have "bear load" for my 12 gauge.  I am thinking it is double 00 or something.  The shells were expensive, but the house I moved into actually had a bear break down the door.  The former occupants shot it with a big hand gun of some kind.


I still have the unopened box of shells.  I feared the kickback would be pretty nasty, but I never had to find out.  My anorexic Golden Retriever turned out to be a great bear dog and the bears feared dogs so all was well.

That was the topic mentioned by all neighbors when I arrived.  After hello and welcome, it was What kind of firearm do you have?

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Cyclopath
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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 11:45 am 
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I use Jedi mind tricks.  Works every time.
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coldrain108
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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 11:57 am 
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Cyclopath wrote:
I use Jedi mind tricks.  Works every time.

Totally!

just like dogs, bears can tell if you are scared of them, and they act accordingly.  So the mind trick is to keep one's cool.

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Mikey
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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 2:14 pm 
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catsp  Thanks for the links.
Treeswarper:  I have not experienced more recoil from Double 00 shotgun shells or slug shotgun shells compared to say size 6 shot shells.
Note that a pistol, shotgun or rifle like a 30-06 when fired makes a very loud noise and emits a burned powder smell.  If you have been around animals like dogs, horses, or cattle where someone is firing a high caliber firearm, you for sure will observe that most animals -wild or tame - are not comfortable being shot near or at.  The loud sound of a 30-06 rifle firing is sufficient to cause damage to a human's ear if the person is adjacent and in front of the rifle muzzle (not in the line of the bullet trajectory) so animals with much better hearing than humans can be very effected if the animal is very near.  I have seen a hunting dog move away if a hunter carelessly happens to point his shotgun towards the dog.
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Seventy2002
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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 3:42 pm 
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catsp wrote:
EPA, not FDA, I believe.

Yep. The EPA certification only means the propellant will not harm the ozone layer.
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Slugman
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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 3:59 pm 
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Can’t even stop a deer with a gun....

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/10/24/hunter-dies-after-deer-he-shot-gets-up-and-attacks-him-officials-say/4084598002/

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catsp
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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 4:20 pm 
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Seventy2002 wrote:
The EPA certification only means the propellant will not harm the ozone layer.

I don't believe that's accurate.
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Tom
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PostThu Oct 24, 2019 4:29 pm 
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I hope to have the calendar submission thread up soon for more productive use of everyone's time.
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