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Do you want a self-driving car?
No
18%
 18%  [ 8 ]
No only no, but HELL NO!!!
32%
 32%  [ 14 ]
Yes
48%
 48%  [ 21 ]
Total Votes : 43

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Jumble Jowls
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PostThu Oct 31, 2019 4:53 pm 
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Ski wrote:
WHY do I need a self-driving car when I am perfectly capable of driving the car myself?

I don't need the car to tell me how to drive, where to go, or how fast to go there. I can do all that myself.

up.gif

More to the point, I don't want a self-driving car.   No more that I'd hire a chauffer.

Some people say they'd want it if it's optional.    But my concern is that if this technology starts entering the market, some carmakers will start phasing out your ability to drive your car.   The government probably will push it, led by the NHTSA.

Thanks, but I'll drive my car myself.
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Cyclopath
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PostFri Nov 01, 2019 10:19 am 
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Rats love driving tiny cars, even when they don’t get treats

Rats that learn to drive are more able to cope with stress. That might sound like the fever-dream of a former scientist-turned-car writer, but it's actually one of the results of a new study from the University of Richmond. The aim of the research was to see what effect the environment a rat was raised in had on its ability to learn new tasks. Although that kind of thing has been studied in the past, the tests haven't been particularly complicated. Anyone who has spent time around rats will know they're actually quite resourceful. So the team, led by Professor Kelly Lambert, came up this time with something a little more involved than navigating a maze: driving.

If you're going to teach rats to drive, first you need to build them a car (or Rat Operated Vehicle). The chassis and powertrain came from a robot car kit, and a transparent plastic food container provided the body. Explaining the idea of a steering wheel and pedals to rats was probably too difficult, so the controls were three copper wires stretched across an opening cut out of the front of the bodywork and an aluminum plate on the floor. When a rat stood on the plate and gripped a copper bar, a circuit was completed and the motors engaged; one bar made the car turn to the left, one made it turn to the right, and the third made it go straight ahead.

If proof were needed that many existing psychology tests are too simple, rats did not take long to learn how to drive. The driving was conducted in a closed-off arena (1.5m x 0.6m x 0.5m) where the goal was to drive over to a food treat. Three five-minute sessions a week, for eight weeks, was sufficient for the rats to learn how to do it. The placement of the treat and the starting position and orientation of the car varied throughout, so the rats had more of a challenge each time. At the end of the experiment, each rat went through a series of trials, conducted a day or two apart, where they were allowed to drive around the arena but without any food treats to see if they were only doing it for the food.

The subjects were 11 male rats, five of whom lived together in a large cage with multiple surface levels and objects to play with, and six who lived together in pairs in standard laboratory rat cages. Although both groups of rats learned to drive the car, the ones that lived in the enriched environment were quicker to start driving, and they continued to be more interested in driving even when there was no reward on offer beyond the thrill of the wind in one's fur.

The researchers also collected each rat's droppings at various points during the study to analyze them for metabolites of corticosterone and dehydroepiandrosterone, a pair of hormones. The ratio of these two hormones can show how stressed an animal is, and it changed in a pattern consistent with emotional resilience in all the rats over the course of the study. However, there was no significant difference between the enriched environment and the control group in this regard, which may well mean that the four-month process of teaching the rats to drive was itself a positive enriching environment.

Serious scientists usually refrain from imputing any further emotion onto research animals, but I'm no longer a serious scientist, so I'm happy saying that learning to drive made the rats more well-adjusted. And the study has further value; these complex activities may be more useful tests in rat models of neuropsychiatry than those in current use.

Behavioural Brain Research, 2019. DOI: 10.1016/j.bbr.2019.112309 (About DOIs).

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/11/these-rats-learned-to-drive-tiny-cars-for-science/
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Brushwork
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PostFri Nov 01, 2019 12:53 pm 
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That is a fascinating rat study.   Why would the ability to drive improve stress response in a rat?   I would imagine it would tie in with their natural ability to figure out things, but why would it affect “stress” hormones?    Seems like some significant implication for humans....

I wonder why only male rats were used??

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Cyclopath
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PostFri Nov 01, 2019 12:57 pm 
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My guess (about stress reduction) is giving them something else to focus on is enriching and probably a distraction from whatever is unpleasant in their lives?
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RandyHiker
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PostFri Nov 01, 2019 1:12 pm 
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Cyclopath wrote:
RandyHiker wrote:
Backpacker Joe wrote:
Stupid question.  Of course, and they can be held accountable.

Perhaps they can, but usually they aren't

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/10/18/its-26-another-cyclist-killed-and-driver-is-not-charged/

Yeah, a driver just has to say the magic words "I didn't see him" or "he came out of nowhere" and they're not held accountable.  At least for pedestrians and cyclists.  But robots are scary.

How many self driving cars will have a DUI problem?

Yeah so that's one reason I wear a "construction worker vest" and other highly visible items while cycling -- I don't want any jury to believe "I just didn't see him".     IME wearing a "construction worker vest" has significantly my number of "close encounters" with vehicles.   I think that drivers on a subconscious know they aren't supposed to strike construction workers with their vehicles -- once they realize I'm a cyclist they have already subconsciously given me some berth.

With autonomous vehicles, my thinking is that since the big tech company's developing the technology have deep pockets that wrongful death lawsuits will be much more vigorously pursued that cases of "driver error"   -- Also with a "driver error" lawsuit the members of the jury may have the thought "I've made that kind of mistake, but have been lucky" -- so are less likely to convict a human as they can place themselves in the driver's shoes.    A robot driver and the big tech company behind it will be no such deference.
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MtnGoat
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PostSat Nov 02, 2019 8:51 am 
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Cyclopath wrote:
RandyHiker wrote:
Backpacker Joe wrote:
Stupid question.  Of course, and they can be held accountable.

Perhaps they can, but usually they aren't

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/10/18/its-26-another-cyclist-killed-and-driver-is-not-charged/

Yeah, a driver just has to say the magic words "I didn't see him" or "he came out of nowhere" and they're not held accountable.  At least for pedestrians and cyclists.  But robots are scary.

How many self driving cars will have a DUI problem?

Yes, words indicating you're not morally responsible mean you're not morally responsible in the sense of intent. And assuming one is honest, of course. Holding people accountable, for justifiable reasons, is important.

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Anne Elk
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PostSat Nov 02, 2019 9:57 am 
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"Where's the fun?" is what I say.  Not that traffic jams are fun, but where's the fun in the great American road trip, if you're not driving?  It's like why I now own two manual transmission vehicles.  If you don't understand, it can't be explained to you.

One new car-related invention I am interested in though, is that they're figuring out how to make ALL vehicles able to detect alcohol consumption and impossible to drive under those conditions.  Imagine - no more DUI insanity.  Would probably save more lives than  guns.gif control.

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RandyHiker
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PostSat Nov 02, 2019 11:02 am 
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I wonder how many "never ever" folks also refuse to use such innovations as cruise control, anti-lock brakes and stability control.
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Backpacker Joe
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PostSat Nov 02, 2019 4:00 pm 
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I want a self riding motorcycle!

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Cyclopath
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PostSat Nov 02, 2019 6:27 pm 
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Anne Elk wrote:
"Where's the fun?" is what I say.  Not that traffic jams are fun, but where's the fun in the great American road trip, if you're not driving?  It's like why I now own two manual transmission vehicles.  If you don't understand, it can't be explained to you.

One new car-related invention I am interested in though, is that they're figuring out how to make ALL vehicles able to detect alcohol consumption and impossible to drive under those conditions.  Imagine - no more DUI insanity.  Would probably save more lives than  guns.gif control.

Have you ever been in the passenger seat on a road trip?  After you saying that can't be fun?  For me the fun is in exploring new places, not knowing where you're going to sleep tonight, talking to people who have a different kind of life.  Conversations with the other people in the car with you, or letting your mind run away with itself if you're alone.  None of that would be any different with a self driving car, you'd just get to pay more attention to the scenery around you instead of having to focus on the road itself.
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Cyclopath
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PostSat Nov 02, 2019 6:29 pm 
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MtnGoat wrote:
Yes, words indicating you're not morally responsible mean you're not morally responsible in the sense of intent. And assuming one is honest, of course. Holding people accountable, for justifiable reasons, is important.

Personally, I would rather eliminate 99% of the death and injury involved in car travel and then figure out what to do about the last 1%, instead of just knowing who to blame like we have now.
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Schenk
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PostMon Nov 04, 2019 11:56 am 
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OK so once most, if not all, vehicles on paved roads are autonomous, what do we do with the person who gets the black market app that makes their vehicle an autonomous Road Warrior?
I can easily imagine an illegal app/download/re-program that allows the user's vehicle to bypass traffic laws, speed, make unsafe lane changes, etc, etc. all in the name of getting there faster...which is why most people drive aggressively to begin with.

And then that begs the question: Will I be able to buy an illegal app that will let my vehicle change destination suddenly, pursue the a-hole's vehicle, and catch up to him so I can give him the bird? hahaha

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MtnGoat
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PostMon Nov 04, 2019 3:50 pm 
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Cyclopath wrote:
Personally, I would rather eliminate 99% of the death and injury involved in car travel and then figure out what to do about the last 1%, instead of just knowing who to blame like we have now.

Easy. Make the speed limit 1 mph.

Done.

If you think safety is the highest virtue, think again.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Cyclopath
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PostTue Nov 05, 2019 8:38 am 
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MtnGoat wrote:
Easy. Make the speed limit 1 mph.

Done.

If you think safety is the highest virtue, think again.

Cool strawman.  I guess blame is the highest virtue then, and worth dying for.  😆
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Cyclopath
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PostTue Nov 05, 2019 8:40 am 
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Waymo has rolled out completely driverless vehicles in parts of Chandler AZ. No safety driver.

They are mapping LA; they are looking to move forward and are working with other partners. And yes, they see cyclists.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/01/hailing-a-driverless-ride-in-a-waymo/
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