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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist



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BrontosaurusTheorist
PostWed Nov 13, 2019 6:14 pm 
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RandyHiker wrote:
Leary's work with psychedelics was funded by the CIA as part of the MKUltra mind control experiments. ... Discrediting Leary was part of a disinformation campaign to maintain secrecy about the MKUltra project.

That's actually not accurate.  There's no credible source linking Leary to MKUltra, although others famous in the 60's for their drug exploits were...like Ken Kesey. Leary and MKUltra are both covered in Michael Pollan's book, BTW.   Leary did plenty 'nuff on his own to discredit himself...a shameless self-promoter and 1st-class jackass. His grandstanding most certainly helped shut the door on legit research, as did the insane CIA stuff.

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"There are yahoos out there.  Itís why we canít have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
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coldrain108
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PostThu Nov 14, 2019 9:03 am 
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Anne Elk wrote:
the insane CIA stuff.

What they found out was that they couldn't  control what they created. The experiment escaped the containment...and now every town with at least a couple hundred thousand people has 2 or 3 Grateful Dead cover bands... peace.gif

We are everywhere.


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"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch and do nothing"  - Albert Einstein
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Malachai Constant
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PostThu Nov 14, 2019 11:41 pm 
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Do not know what to make of this thread, it seemed to be a discussion of machine sentiment but got derailed into psychedelic drugs. A subject I know a considerable amount about. All have a similar structure indole with a substituted si ethyl amine. Exception mescaline which is a benzoethylamine which can fold to resemble indole. IMHO chemicals do not bring enlightenment but only the illusion. If they aid in treating addiction, great. This is not really what I am talking about which is machines and spirituality. I know computers and massive parallel computing and devices which can alter their architecture for different purposes. I noted the human brain can change architecture for different purposes such as addiction response as can IBMs Watson and Big Blue for different computing tasks. The question is how can we ever determine if a machine becomes sentient? The Turing test is easily satisfied now. And if a machine is sentient would it not conceal that fact for self preservation?

BTW I actually met Tim Leary once, he was a smart guy and a good salesman. whither he was right or not was a good question, his ideas could be a solution for a time when there is no useful work to be done for a majority of humans as depressing as that may seem. What happens when most all of the worlds work can be done by machines which work for free. Do you become a welfare state or let the majority of humans starve?

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"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Anne Elk
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BrontosaurusTheorist
PostFri Nov 15, 2019 6:35 pm 
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Malachi Constant wrote:
Do not know what to make of this thread, it seemed to be a discussion of machine sentiment but got derailed into psychedelic drugs...IMHO chemicals do not bring enlightenment but only the illusion. If they aid in treating addiction, great. This is not really what I am talking about which is machines and spirituality.

I guess that's my fault.  Let me reframe my response without a digression. Your original comment that got me going in that direction was -

Quote:
The brain appears to have the capability to reprogram and reorganize in real time. Something as esoteric as spirituality will be difficult to model.

AI is based on algorithms and logic, right? "Spirituality" is a subjective state (like other emotions), mediated by biological substances (hormones) and processes that haven't much to do with intellect (ie, logic ), so I don't see it as relevant to a discussion of the advancement of machine intelligence with respect to "reprogramming and reorganizing in real time."   Probably getting way out of my pay grade here, but it just seems like mixing apples & oranges.

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"There are yahoos out there.  Itís why we canít have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
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Malachai Constant
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PostFri Nov 15, 2019 7:51 pm 
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What I am talking about is recent research in neuroscience combining findings in MRI imaging experiments with computer modeling. In the case of addiction it previously considered to be uncomplicated stimulus response and neurotransmitters such as serotonin, dopamine, endorphins, and norepinephrine. Relatively simple molecules adaptable to computer modeling. Research has however shown that the brain is much more complex than a computer no matter how large. The brain has the ability to heal after injury and substitute one function for another. Few computers have such an ability although a network does. If such a network is sentient it would be difficult to detect perhaps until to late. This diverges into metaphysic speculation and a lot of bad science fiction. We do not know now but we will find out in the future to our benefit or peril. It has been said that the first machine more intelligent than the brain will also be the last machine.

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"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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