Forum Index > Trip Reports > Mt Adams Summit Bivy, Dec 7-8, 2019
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OwenT
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PostFri Dec 13, 2019 3:51 pm 
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I'd like to climb Parinacota, looks really cool. Be sure to post!
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Downhill
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PostFri Dec 13, 2019 5:02 pm 
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Super cool trip and very nice TR write-up and photos.  Thank you.  Good luck on your upcoming S. America trip.  I'll be looking forward to your posts from those adventures!
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mike
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PostFri Dec 13, 2019 5:45 pm 
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Nice trip! I am also skeptical of the value of a quick trip to 4000m and back down. Note the reference to staying at 4km for 16 days. I've found it to be at least 2 weeks (a month is better) above 10k' to begin to feel comfortable eating and sleeping normally. Takes a bit to change your breathing pattern habit to get more air in your lungs. Can you budget an extra week or two just being a tourist before going much higher? The altiplano is 12k' and there is plenty to ee and do.
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Riverside Laker
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PostFri Dec 13, 2019 6:11 pm 
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In the airplane en route, you'll be at the equivalent of 8000'. Well, unless it's a 787 which I think is 6000'.
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Doppelganger
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PostFri Dec 27, 2019 11:56 am 
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iluka wrote:
it will not prevent acute mountain sickness, HACE or HAPE.

I'm not sure this was claimed or inferred at any point

iluka wrote:
opinions and myths out there about how best to acclimatize

I think that there are varying definitions of "acclimatize" - you may have a more strict definition than someone whose sole focus is mountaineering, who would be happy with a loose definition of being better able to perform strenuous tasks at altitude. You may be required to better understand the acclimatization process itself, a climber may benefit from this knowledge but can simply focus on the results of the acclimatization process biggrin.gif

iluka wrote:
- A single trip to 12K overnight well ahead of the planned trip to high altitude isn't likely to be of much benefit in terms of acclimatization. In the end, the utility of such trips depends on several factors including how high one goes, how long they stay there, how frequently they do it and how close it is to the eventual trip. A single trip to Muir or the top of Adams a few weeks before heading off to climb Kilimanjaro won't do anything. Spending two weeks hanging out in Colorado, climbing to the tops of the 14ers and then heading from there over to Kilimanjaro would be of more benefit.

Single trips up Adams like this won't really hurt someone (apart from the risk of getting lost in a whiteout, frostbite, hypothermia etc on this particular trip) but whether they promote true acclimatization that will provide benefit on a subsequent trip to high altitude is unclear.

Hmm. Can you clarify this train of thought? While I agree that we don't know much about how the human body handles changes during acclimatization, or how long those changes 'last' when the body moves between elevations, I have to point out that the bolded statements here seem to describe two different (if not contradicting) positions on how effective single short trips to high elevation can be. It also does not address the scenario raised later in the thread, a longer 3 day acclimatization trip just a few days (3 in this thread) before the trip to high altitude.
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christensent
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PostFri Dec 27, 2019 8:55 pm 
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Eric Gilbertson wrote:
That’s also about the time my pad had self-deflated enough for me to be resting on the snow and very cold. I reluctantly got out of my bags to re-inflate my pad.

While laying on my slightly-leaky-sleeping-pad a few weeks ago, I ran the math in my head while dreading the next upcoming re-inflation. I convinced myself beyond any reasonable doubt that I should be able to inflate the pad while I'm laying on it. I felt someone ridiculous but had to try it, and indeed was thrilled to find out that you can indeed fully inflate your sleeping pad while you are on it! Forever, my life is changed on setting inflation levels leaky or not.

(a typical hiking body is many square feet in area, and weighs in the region of 150-250lbs... this results in a ground pressure of a small fraction of 1PSI. A human can blow just over 1PSI - you can barely even tell it's harder to inflate... spread your body out evenly as much as possible and it just gets easier and easier).

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Learning mountaineering: 10% technical knowledge, 90% learning how to eat
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Mikey
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PostThu Jan 09, 2020 8:45 pm 
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There has been a lot of research on acclimatization upon moving from sea level to high altitude.  Groups from the U of Washington Medical School have done research on high altitude acclimatization at various locations including Mt Everest.  I had a U of W Professor of Medicine give a short talk about acclimatization to high altitude in my engineering class and as I recall he said the change in Red Blood Cell concentration caused by going from sea level  to high altitude followed an exponential curve assuming the body had adequate iron etc. to make the new Red Blood Cells.  To help my acclimatization, I would eat chicken livers to get lots of iron and then hike from Paradise to Camp Muir (sleep at Paradise, hike to Camp Muir, then sleep again at Paradise), climb Mt Baker (high camp in the 7,000-8,500 ft elevation range), and climb Mt Adams (camp at about 9,500 ft).  I was lucky to never have any high altitude effects - and I realize that on my climbs in Wash. State I was not at altitudes higher than Mt Rainier. I suspect that there may be a long term adaptation to higher altitude because I have never known of a person who was born and raised at higher altitude such as Denver Colorado getting altitude sickness climbing Mt Rainier even though the person was now living in Seattle.  When the summer Olympic games were held in Mexico City, there was considerable attention given to acclimatization to higher altitude.
I climbing friend of mine (a nurse) had Diamox (a prescription drug) in her first aid kit and Diamox is effective in preventing and treating high altitude effects.
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joker
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PostSat Jan 11, 2020 2:42 pm 
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Cool trip report, including the photos as well as the tale - as CC noted strong work!

For acclimatization for big trips, perhaps one could get a return on investment by renting out a hypobaric chamber. Maybe someone already does rent them for all I know... At around four grand (tent plus pressure  thingy) for one of these tent style chambers I imagine some people just buy them to use whenever planning outings to high places.
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Brushbuffalo
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PostSun Jan 12, 2020 1:21 pm 
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Another excellent trip report by Eric G., and interesting points that follow.
Eric Gilbertson wrote:
The other claim that acclimation is very specific to the individual is based on my own experience.

I have a friend, a top rock climber and mountaineer, who is a 'study of one' in that she regularly breaks all the norms about sleep and nutrition while exercising yet still performs at a top level.

Regarding E.G. and his amazingly fast climbs in the Cascades and around the world, and quoting his statement above about individuality, he also may be an exception to the norm in regard to the 'rules'  about acclimatization.

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Passing rocks and trees like they were standing still
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silence
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PostTue Jan 14, 2020 6:55 am 
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Nice! Great pix too!

Checked out your website ... VERY impressive  ... what you guys have accomplished, esp in such a short time. And what you still plan to do.

up.gif  up.gif  up.gif  up.gif  up.gif

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PHOTOS: https://www.flickr.com/photos/33792231@N00/sets
FILMMAKING: http://www.crestpictures.com/

Keep a good head and always carry a light bulb. – Bob Dylan
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JustJoe
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PostTue Jan 14, 2020 11:11 am 
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I don't claim to know anything about acclimization(or even how to spell it right probably), but I do know a really cool and courageous trip agenda when I see one.

Very impressive and enjoyable photographic perspective and one I will probably never experience in person.  Besides, I'd be too afraid the Yeti would come along in the the middle of the night and want to share my tent space. paranoid.gif
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Forum Index > Trip Reports > Mt Adams Summit Bivy, Dec 7-8, 2019
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