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MtnGoat
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PostTue Dec 17, 2019 11:34 am 
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Pahoehoe wrote:
Not everywhere.

Some places they dont want my electric snowmobile even though its quiet and it doesnt stink.

Sure, it can go fast but that doesn't mean I will go fast.

I'm entitled to be on public land.

I am quiet and I dont stink!

Yup.

You'll need to contend with others who figure they're entitled to keep you because somehow your quiet, non stinky recreation harms them in some emotional way, however.

The exclusion game is afoot once again it seems.

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Malachai Constant
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PostTue Dec 17, 2019 12:03 pm 
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Nearly got killed on Mt. Margaret road going up a knoll from the north  side. Just as I approached the summit three sleds came up the south side at a high rate of speed catching air and landing with a thud and laughing a few feet from me. They took off without a by your way and continued highpointing.

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Pahoehoe
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PostTue Dec 17, 2019 2:05 pm 
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Malachai Constant wrote:
Nearly got killed on Mt. Margaret road going up a knoll from the north  side. Just as I approached the summit three sleds came up the south side at a high rate of speed catching air and landing with a thud and laughing a few feet from me. They took off without a by your way and continued highpointing.

All user groups have assholes.

I've been almost hit by a skier.
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treeswarper
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PostTue Dec 17, 2019 4:10 pm 
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Remember, your battery on your electric snowmobile will be directly affected by the cold temps.  Your mileage will be less.  Better carry some skis or snowshoes until you figure that out.

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What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Randito
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PostTue Dec 17, 2019 5:55 pm 
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Pahoehoe wrote:
I've been almost hit by a skier.

I've been hit by a drunk skier, a newbie snowboarder that was out of control on an easy green slope and my wife was struck and injured by a snowboarder that thought it would be fun to jump off a bump right next to a "no jumping" sign.

The newbie snowboarder was sheepish,  the jumping snowboarder's friends offered to beat him up.

People do stupid sh##, doesn't make them assholes.
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Malachai Constant
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PostTue Dec 17, 2019 6:00 pm 
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I’ve been hit by out of control skiers on several occasions. Once at Summit traversing over to the start of a race. Once at whistler on a foggy day. A couple others but those are the ones that released the bindings. Neither stopped or slowed down, I yelled FU at the one at Whistler and sever others joined in. A hazard of the sport never injured just shaken up.  If you play football you will get tackled. I have never hit anyone, ski in control and you will not be at fault.

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"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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rossb
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PostTue Dec 17, 2019 6:57 pm 
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Pahoehoe wrote:
I'm hoping to take my e-snowmobile into the non motorized snow areas and cross country trails.

Its quiet.  No exhaust.  Shouldn't be an issue.

It depends. Unfortunately, in some areas, the tracks themselves cause a problem. It is a mixed bag, of course. Under some circumstance, people would welcome the sleds -- beats slogging away. But if you are an amateur, or someone who just loves breaking trail and fresh snow, then it sucks. I was up on Foss River one time, and experienced both feelings. I ran across two sledders, and they had poached the road (they had gone past the sign that said "no motorized vehicles"). The exhaust and the noise really wasn't a problem. I ran across them, and one guy was stuck (a rookie) and the other was helping him out. I really didn't feel like lecturing them about how they shouldn't be there. Plus I honestly had mixed feelings. I like the pristine nature of nothing but ski tracks (especially going down). But after I went past their turnaround point, it was tough going.

For the backside of Amabalis the situation is much worse. This is an area that is routinely groomed, which means that snowmobile tracks (which are rare) are horrible. They just ruin it for the rest of us. It isn't that folks are anti-machine (the groomers are mechanized) but that a typical grooming is smooth, while sledders weave back and forth, making deep grooves that are much tougher to ski on.

For open country that doesn't allow snowmobiles, you have a different issue. A very high percentage of folks out there skiing the backcountry are in it for the virgin turns. Your sled is an unfair advantage. You can crisscross an entire mountainside in an afternoon. Even though you would be quiet and clean, you will be enemy number one if you step out of bounds. Someone worked all day to make first turns on a bluebird day, and you chopped it up big time.

You also have the legal aspect. I know, I've broken my share of laws. But the Wilderness Act isn't one of them. It really is a great law, and should be respected. At times it seems silly -- a bike can't go on a very wide, flat trail just because it is within the boundary. But it results in everyone taking it easy, and taking it slow. If you poached a trail at walking speed, I'm sure no one would care. But then, what would be the point.

You might also think about what it means to other sledders. Someone sees the trailer there, or the tracks, and figures it is OK. They won't know that you are actually quiet. Whether you wanted to or not, you've put your camel nose in the tent. Do you really want to do that?

I encourage you to just stick to the areas that allow the vehicles, just like the folks with electric bikes stick to the trails that allow bikes. There are plenty of great places that allow them. If you happen to encounter a skier in such a place, I'm sure they will appreciate it. Personally, if I was skiing the Mountain Loop or Park Butte and I encountered you, I would be thrilled. I would salute you; I would genuflect; you would be my hero. If we met at the parking lot, I would give you my beer, even if it was last one. (OK, maybe half a beer, but still). Seriously though, I think it is awesome that you have an electric snow machine, and hope that is a trend. But take it up to the edge of the Wilderness -- not through it.
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rossb
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PostTue Dec 17, 2019 7:41 pm 
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Pahoehoe wrote:
Down hill skiers go super fast downhill, so speed isn't an issue.

Hmmm, different thing. If a downhill skier goes really fast, and runs into me (another skier) than both of us could be hurt really bad. But since we both weigh more or less the same, it is likely we both will be banged up, but limp home. Maybe a few bruises -- at worse an ankle injury, or something like that.

If, on the other hand, I am hit with a machine that weighs 500 pounds, I'm toast. The vehicle itself weighs three times my weight, and it is hard metal. Your body is on top of it, adding significant mass (making the ratio about four to one). If I was walking, I might fly over the windshield, but as it turns out, my skis would likely get stuck underneath. That means I would be hit, hard, until the boots got ripped out of the bindings, or my feet got ripped out of the boots. Either way, I'm in the hospital, and my life has changed forever. I may never ski again -- I may never walk again. That is all assuming that I don't hit in the head, and end up in a coma. Keep in mind that downhill skiers routinely use helmets now, while cross country skiers rarely do. Then there is the risk of a major laceration. Things could get really, really ugly -- as bad as the worst day at the resort (which is horrible). Speed is definitely an issue when driving something many times heavier and harder than the other folks around you (especially since most of them aren't wearing a helmet).
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Pahoehoe
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PostWed Dec 18, 2019 1:34 pm 
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I'm sure many hikers feel the same way about ebikes but ebikes are being considered non motorized by many because they are quiet and dont stink.

So e-snowmobiles should be allowed in all non wilderness areas.
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Tom
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PostWed Dec 18, 2019 2:06 pm 
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When the law classifies e-snowmobiles as non-motorized up to 750W (1hp) motor perhaps you could argue that.  Not sure where 1 hp motors would work well with snowmobiles.  Maybe once moon travel becomes commonplace you could ride them there.
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Pahoehoe
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PostWed Dec 18, 2019 2:11 pm 
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Tom wrote:
When the law classifies e-snowmobiles as non-motorized up to 750W (1hp) motor perhaps you could argue that.  Not sure where 1 hp motors would work well with snowmobiles.  Maybe once moon travel becomes commonplace you could ride them there.

It's about impact.
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Tom
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PostWed Dec 18, 2019 2:14 pm 
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Why do you have to pollute this thread arguing about e-bikes?
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Pahoehoe
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PostWed Dec 18, 2019 5:09 pm 
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I'm not.  My emachine doesnt even need trails.  Impact is non existant.  Gone with the next snow storm.

It shouldnt be a problem.
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Tom
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PostWed Dec 18, 2019 5:18 pm 
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And what does this have to do with this thread? Other than to troll?
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treeswarper
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PostWed Dec 18, 2019 5:19 pm 
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Tom wrote:
Why do you have to pollute this thread arguing about e-bikes?

I am guilty of provoking it.  I mentioned that I have a fat tire ebike that might be good to go where fat bikes can go.

I think I need a back tire with more tread so it probably won't happen.

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