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treeswarper
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PostSun Dec 15, 2019 8:28 pm 
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RandyHiker wrote:
Last winter my wife and I were RVing in a vintage 28 foot RV -- effectively 190 square feet -- as Treeswarper notes the stock furnace on those things are pretty weak and the walls aren't exactly thickly insulated -- plus the stock furnace is ridiculously loud and burns through propane in a jiffy.  It was better heat and sound wise using a catalytic heater -- but then moisture management became a big job.

I did not cook anything that required boiling during the winter.  Condensation was horrible and on some mornings the inside walls were frosty.

There are a few companies that make or will make trailers that are insulated for winter.  Arctic Fox of course, and then the fiberglass companies Bigfoot, Oliver and Escape.  There are probably others, too.

The other problem, and it might not happen anymore was that my refrigerator would quit working as soon as temps got below freezing.  I could keep a cooler outside and I also rented a locker in cold storage in Twisp.  There was a boot repair/fishing supplies/cold storage business downtown at that time.  You could rent a basket for pretty cheap to keep frozen stuff in.

They also now make fresh water hoses that come with heat tape built in.  No more wrapping hoses in heat tape and insulation, I guess.

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RandyHiker
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PostSun Dec 15, 2019 9:38 pm 
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treeswarper wrote:
I did not cook anything that required boiling during the winter.  Condensation was horrible and on some mornings the inside walls were frosty

Our kitchen had a vent directly over the stove -- but yeah the only water boiling we did was for coffee and tea.

Yeah, and the catalytic heater we used also generates considerable moisture.

We used Reflectix sheets against the glass (single pane) to minimize heat loss and then I would use a squeegee or scraper to wipe moisture off the windows in the morning -- but then you have wet towels to dry out.    In our usage, since we were traveling frequently and were driving and running the engine heater we could dry things out without additional expense or fuel usage.  If we were stationary or at a campsite with a hookup,  I would use electrical space heaters to provide moisture free heat.    For the most part we were boondocking, so didn't have sufficient electrical power to run a heater.   The generator on our vintage motorhome didn't run and new "RV Rated" generator was over $4000 -- so I installed 400 watts of solar panels.    I found these provided sufficient energy to run the lights and all the 12 volt appliances -- the biggest watt eater being the furnace fan.
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cdestroyer
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PostMon Dec 16, 2019 7:58 am 
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I don't suppose this includes living onboard a 535ft naval ship for 4 years and sharing the space with over 360 other men, no need for cooking, washing,working which is all communal like, and being isolated at sea for a month or more? (and get paid to do it,, oh such fun)
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Washakie
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PostMon Dec 16, 2019 10:42 am 
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I live in a 12  ft by 15 ft dwelling.  Three sides are made from cinder block type bricks.  The other is a decoritive design of solid metal tubing.  My meals are delivered three times a day.  I hate my neighbors.

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"What is the color when black is burned?" - Neil Young

"We're all normal when we want our freedom" - Arthur Lee

"The internet can make almost anyone seem intelligent"  - Washakie
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Riverside Laker
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PostMon Dec 16, 2019 11:22 am 
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Our truck camper is 4' wide by 6' long. Well, there's a "loft" above the cab that's about the size of a double bed. So 24 square feet. We lived in it about 100 days this year. It has a vast, humongous yard though.

The rest of the year we lived in a mansion, but have to share with a butler and maid and the rest of the downstairs staff. Most of them leave in the evening though, so there's plenty of room. Fortunately the gardeners stay out in the yard or our compound of sheds, carriage houses, and other outbuildings.
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DigitalJanitor
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PostMon Dec 16, 2019 1:15 pm 
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Living in a 2b/2b house just over 1,000 sq ft since 2002 and will probably stay put since it's paid for now. We don't have room for extra crap. It's a good excuse to waive off on a lot of stuff we don't really need. Super insulated and windows facing WSW mean our heat bills are dramatically lower than most in the area, just need to open the blinds in the morning.

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mike
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PostMon Dec 16, 2019 2:04 pm 
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We (wife-daughter) lived in a 4-500sq' cabin for 12 years. Rent was very cheap and we put our money into property and building a house ourselves. I could build what I could afford to pay the lumber yard each month so came out with property and a house and no debt. "new" house is 1300sq' + garage so still small. Cabin made up for the small size with a beautiful location right on the beach. large yard and garden, distant neighbors. Spent a lot of time living around the house weather permitting. Commuted to work by skiff for a while.
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Kascadia
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PostMon Dec 16, 2019 6:53 pm 
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Washakie wrote:
I live in a 12  ft by 15 ft dwelling.  Three sides are made from cinder block type bricks.  My meals are delivered three times a day.  I hate my neighbors.

My horse could have posted this.

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Man, stretch thy reason hither, so thou mayest comprehend these things. Johannes Kepler
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Anne Elk
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PostMon Dec 16, 2019 8:26 pm 
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I live in approximately 900 sq ft, not counting the garage. It's plenty. I've lived on a few sailboats over the years - 37' - 43';  it was fun for a time, but the physical cramping gets old. I wanted to move around more and not have to be outside and away from home to do it. There's an interesting documentary on Netflix right now called "Minimalism", most of which addresses philosophical issues around accumulation and killing yourself at work in order to pay for all your "stuff".

A lot of the tiny house aficionados seem to be doing it out of necessity; I see them occasionally advertising in the housing wanted section of Craigslist looking for land owners to rent them a spot (presumably with all hookups) for next to nothing. That just seems a recipe for conflict.

A friend recently sent this youtube link; all I could think was that a lot of the"freedom" talk in the program sounded like rationalizing to make themselves feel better. Some of those folks (especially the older ones) were living that way b/c they had to.  Many are likely one significant health crisis away from being destitute.

There's no getting around the fact that the high cost of housing is restricting everyone's freedom, quality of life, and reducing people to the level of serfs (and worse) in numbers not seen since the days of ... serfs.

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"There are yahoos out there.  It’s why we can’t have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
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treeswarper
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PostTue Dec 17, 2019 7:24 am 
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It all depends where you want to live.  There are nice places where housing doesn't cost a fortune.  Finding high paying work might be a problem, but you still might be able to afford living in such a place. 

The West Coast is wrecked.  Wenatchee is little Seattle.  I even saw a business named The Seattle Coffee Shop or something similar downtown! 

The housing crunch has not occurred everywhere in inland Warshington.   I imagine Aberdeen/Hoquiam might be an exception for coastal living. 

Serfdom only exists if you want to live where you cannot afford to live.

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What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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RichP
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PostTue Dec 17, 2019 8:11 am 
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Finding a place where one can afford to live and make a decent living is becoming increasingly difficult. Even in poor, rural areas the cost of housing is prohibitive. Not everyone has the skills to become a digital nomad, but those that do can live most anywhere.

As stated above, a health crisis could set anyone of us over the edge, but that is yet another issue to consider.
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neek
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PostTue Dec 17, 2019 8:34 am 
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I just poked around at some Wenatchee real estate (prices and property taxes).  It's quite a bit cheaper than Seattle.  Also mortgage rates are still extremely low.  There's been a steady decline from 18% in 1981 to 3.75% today.  Take that into account when looking at the historic price/income ratio.  True, this has been rising for the past 8 years (although not in Seattle for the past year from what I can tell), but increasing income disparity is the bigger problem.  Note, I'm not super tuned into these things and am happy to be corrected.
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treeswarper
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PostTue Dec 17, 2019 9:18 am 
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neek wrote:
I just poked around at some Wenatchee real estate (prices and property taxes).  It's quite a bit cheaper than Seattle.  Also mortgage rates are still extremely low.  There's been a steady decline from 18% in 1981 to 3.75% today.  Take that into account when looking at the historic price/income ratio.  True, this has been rising for the past 8 years (although not in Seattle for the past year from what I can tell), but increasing income disparity is the bigger problem.  Note, I'm not super tuned into these things and am happy to be corrected.

But, Wenatchee is super expensive when compared with areas to the east and for folks who think they HAVE to live there even though they can't afford it.  Or compared to what it used to be prior to the Seattle exodus.

I am a native of the Wenatchee Valley and I could afford something not as nice as here, like a small apartment,  but I chose to live comfortably in a smaller town.  When I was working, I could have lived in Bend, or some other spendy place, but I chose to go to less trendy and less expensive places.  And yup, I had a line of work that was getting to be more and more in demand as folks retired.

I kind of think it is a result of the false "You can be anything you want to be." way of thought that we have so many people who can't afford where to live where they want to live.

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markweth
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PostTue Dec 17, 2019 10:33 am 
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I lived in a third-floor walk-up during college and grad school in Kentucky. Probably around 350 square feet, if I had to guess. A bit cramped when I had to store a kayak and bikes up there but otherwise wasn't too bad.

After that it was several different apartments/houses and government housing with the USFS, sometimes shared with a girlfriend sometimes not.

I bought a house in Montana in 2017 that is just under 600 square feet with a 400 square foot deck and a 200 square foot insulated shed (skis, bikes, kayak, tools, etc. are all stored in here). It's perfect for me and never feels too small. I'm single and don't have many parties or other social events at my place, so it's a great fit. Cheap to heat, quick to clean, and conveniently located. Only a few blocks from work, a few blocks from the grocery, and a few blocks from the "downtown" of the small city I live in. Aside from driving to trailheads, I might go a few weeks without driving for any other reason. It's a perfect fit for me and the price was good. It also doesn't have much of a yard, which is nice because I don't have to spend much time maintaining it and can just head out hiking instead of mowing the grass. With so much proximity to public land, I didn't really feel much need to own a few acres outside of town and then have to drive everywhere.
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Malachai Constant
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PostTue Dec 17, 2019 10:57 am 
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I had base housing at China Lake for a couple years. It was at most 300 sq’ with an all in one range, oven, refrigerator, and sink. The place had a huge swamp cooler and a one car garage complete with black widows. Some of my best years. smile.gif

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"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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