Forum Index > Trail Talk > The Forest Service wants you to stop going in the ice caves
Previous :: Next Topic  
Author Message
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 9303 | TRs
Location: Don't move here
treeswarper
  Top

Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostMon Dec 16, 2019 12:49 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Kim Brown wrote:
The reason Big 4 is getting attention is public demand for it, accidents get a lot of media attention, and probably having to deal with lawsuits. Otherwise, generally, the USFS doesn't do a lot of hand-holding.

That you know about. 

Gates are one way.  Shut gates on roads and people won't follow their GPS up, get stuck, and die.  Remember that incident on BLM land in Southern OR?  Gates started getting locked shut after that episode.    Mary's Peak is another.  The gate is shut, or was shut, to keep people from wrecking on the unplowed road.  Nevermind that it was a traditional place to go play in the snow.  If you ask, you may get a reason such as the gate is shut because it is a snowmobile route--mention that there is not enough snow for snowmobiling, and you still won't get a good answer. 

Gates are a way to protect the idiots from themselves.  There seem to be more idiots around now than there used to be.

--------------
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Kim Brown
Member
Member


Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 5544 | TRs

Kim Brown
  Top

Member
PostMon Dec 16, 2019 1:24 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I believe my exact words, which show in the quote you posted, were USFS and generally.

--------------
" I'm really happy about this! … I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  – oldgranola, NWH’s outdoors advocate.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Windstorm
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Dec 2014
Posts: 259 | TRs

Windstorm
  Top

Member
PostMon Dec 16, 2019 1:43 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Kim Brown wrote:
Yes. But my post isn't about the bridge and replacement process. It is related to the comment about the Big4 trail issue being moot because the bridge is out. I don't think it is moot because the bridge will be back.

Fair enough, the trail will be an issue again in a few years when the bridge is replaced. I suppose it could be a good thing that the Forest Service now has plenty of time to plan new ways to try to keep people out of the ice caves, but since the current stuff doesn't seem to be terribly successful, I'm not holding out hope that any new stuff will help much.

It is kind of funny that an article titled "The Forest Service wants you to stop going in the ice caves" came out while the ice caves are inaccessible to most people (or at least to those not willing to ford the river).
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 9303 | TRs
Location: Don't move here
treeswarper
  Top

Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostMon Dec 16, 2019 3:56 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Kim Brown wrote:
I believe my exact words, which show in the quote you posted, were USFS and generally.

USFS is in charge of Mary' s Peak and most of the places I am thinking of.  The incident of the lost people was on BLM land.  Gates and even maps control people.

--------------
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Chief Joseph
Member
Member


Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 5074 | TRs
Location: What Verlot Forgot.
Chief Joseph
  Top

Member
PostMon Dec 16, 2019 4:22 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I don't go in them anymore, I have all the cool pics from inside that I need.

--------------
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
zephyr
aka friendly hiker



Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 1960 | TRs
Location: West Seattle
zephyr
  Top

aka friendly hiker
PostMon Dec 16, 2019 4:50 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Malachai Constant wrote:
I favor removing the bridge and moving it to the Suiattle to access Lime Ridge and the PCT hockeygrin.gif

Now there's an idea.  Just do it and don't announce it--everwink.gif   It can be word of mouth for awhile...  ~z
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Cyclopath
Faster than light



Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 3511 | TRs
Location: Seattle
Cyclopath
  Top

Faster than light
PostMon Dec 16, 2019 4:55 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
The linked article says 4 people have died there in the history of visitation to the Ice Cave.  How many have died in the Enchantments?
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Kim Brown
Member
Member


Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 5544 | TRs

Kim Brown
  Top

Member
PostMon Dec 16, 2019 4:59 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
This has nothing to do with the Enchantments.

Public pressure is playing a big role in changes to the Big 4 trail. The USFS is not closing the trail (unless they do temporarily while the bridge is out, but it would be only temporary), they're just enhancing it in various ways.

--------------
" I'm really happy about this! … I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  – oldgranola, NWH’s outdoors advocate.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Cyclopath
Faster than light



Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 3511 | TRs
Location: Seattle
Cyclopath
  Top

Faster than light
PostMon Dec 16, 2019 5:18 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I'm not making an argument, I'm asking if anybody knows the number for the Chants.  Anyone?
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
snowmonkey
Member
Member


Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 19 | TRs

snowmonkey
  Top

Member
PostMon Dec 16, 2019 6:56 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
The erosion is the reason the bridge has been removed and yes, it will have to be built further back in the future. The Ice Caves are listed in Washington tourism as a top destination which is not the USFS doing. Publishing an easy family-friendly destination hike called “The Ice Caves” is an invitation to going in regardless of signage. Perhaps the name should be changed or dropped. Big Four is much less intriguing.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Brushwork
Food truck



Joined: 18 Aug 2018
Posts: 408 | TRs
Location: Washington
Brushwork
  Top

Food truck
PostMon Dec 16, 2019 11:05 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
zephyr wrote:
Malachai Constant wrote:
I favor removing the bridge and moving it to the Suiattle to access Lime Ridge and the PCT hockeygrin.gif

Now there's an idea.  Just do it and don't announce it--everwink.gif   It can be word of mouth for awhile...  ~z
.

Sounds good to me.

--------------
When I grow up I wanna play.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 9303 | TRs
Location: Don't move here
treeswarper
  Top

Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostTue Dec 17, 2019 7:14 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Cyclopath wrote:
The linked article says 4 people have died there in the history of visitation to the Ice Cave.  How many have died in the Enchantments?

More than four.  Chelan County sheriff's office might have data.

--------------
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Atomc
Member
Member


Joined: 15 Aug 2018
Posts: 7 | TRs

Atomc
  Top

Member
PostTue Dec 17, 2019 12:50 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I long for the day when people stop pretending that the end of the ice caves trail is the dividing line between a nice afternoon and certain death. There's nowhere for everyone to stand right there, the talus field isn't some delicate vegetation situation, and as long as you're not inside the ice caves or in the path of something that could slide down the top of them, you're fine. If it was as dangerous as everyone always makes it out to be, with all the knuckleheads that go there, there would be 50 deaths per year.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11451 | TRs
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
  Top

Member
PostTue Dec 17, 2019 1:01 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I was thinking along those lines myself. It's too late to close the knowledge gate as a poster above notes, with the ice caves as destination in numerous sources. If the hazard was really high there would be far more deaths given the usage.

Probably a good idea to leave the bridge out. There is a lot of maintenance backlog in other places which could use that money

--------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Kim Brown
Member
Member


Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 5544 | TRs

Kim Brown
  Top

Member
PostTue Dec 17, 2019 1:50 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Atomc wrote:
I long for the day when people stop pretending that the end of the ice caves trail is the dividing line between a nice afternoon and certain death.

It wasn't that way until public pressure demanded the USFS "do something." The public are begging the USFS to make it nice-nice. If people continue beyond the end of the trail, no, there's nothing anyone can do about it. But people claim they don't know where they should stop, and the next accident happens, and then we're back with "b-b-b-bbut you didn't do enough." As it is, those who were interviewed for the article claim they don't know where the end of the trail is. Typically, on USFS lands, there is no official "end of the trail," and there isn't at Big 4, at least not now. But there is an obvious place to view the caves from a relatively safe place, and if people on the trail had paid attention to the bright yellow hazard signs, they would know what that low rock wall means. If there's a lot of people there, they can move out of the rock circle, but I haven't seen so many that people have to herd themselves into or anywhere near the caves in order to stand somewhere.

However, if the public continues to act like jerks (ignoring signs, ignoring obvious strong hints (a wall, a memorial, and the signs together are pretty obvious, strong hints), then perhaps someday the USFS will have to make a Do Not Enter zone. And given the comments on social media, news outlets, and the public comment sessions about Big 4, a lot of the people who visit Big 4 do expect that.

--------------
" I'm really happy about this! … I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  – oldgranola, NWH’s outdoors advocate.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
  Display:     All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Forum Index > Trail Talk > The Forest Service wants you to stop going in the ice caves
  Happy Birthday K-rino!
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
   Use Disclaimer Powered by phpBB Privacy Policy