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Backpacker Joe Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001 Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics Location: Cle Elum |
RandyHiker wrote: | Backpacker Joe wrote: | I questioned the idea of paving the road all the way to the Taylor bridge before they did it. Now it seems obvious to me it was a mistake. Its going to WAY more difficult to repair the road where needed now that its paved. Think how they will damage the pavement when they have to get all that stuff off the road bed. |
How so? -- if the road hadn't been paved -- this rain event would have still washed out the road. |
I don't disagree there at all. It just seems to me the complexity and costs of road repair are much greater now.
Frankly, I would much rather they put that paving money into keeping the road open to the Dutch Miller Gap trailhead!!!
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
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Backpackapalooza Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2008 Posts: 184 | TRs | Pics
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I don't have any expertise on whether the road was better left unpaved paved, but when they did pave it, they did a ton of work on culverts under the road as well. It's quite possible the unpaved road could have had washouts at many points along the way without the work done. We will never know obviously. It seems the fundamental challenge with the Middle Fork road, paved or not, is that there are so many side creeks and when they are overwhelmed with water, change course, and cause instability, no amount of mitigation will work.
I think this is why we all love this area. It is so wild, yet so close in. I know that's why I love it. I appreciate everyone's posts on the reconnaissance.
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MtnGoat Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:36 am
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Backpacker Joe wrote: | I don't disagree there at all. It just seems to me the complexity and costs of road repair are much greater now.
Frankly, I would much rather they put that paving money into keeping the road open to the Dutch Miller Gap trailhead!!! |
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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nordique Member
Joined: 04 May 2008 Posts: 1086 | TRs | Pics
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nordique
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Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:13 pm
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I'm with you, as someone who loves the Middle Fork. I'm happy to hear that some folks are already crossing the damaged area and accessing trails beyond the blockage.
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Kim Brown Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 Posts: 6900 | TRs | Pics
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MtnGoat wrote: | Backpacker Joe wrote: | I don't disagree there at all. It just seems to me the complexity and costs of road repair are much greater now.
Frankly, I would much rather they put that paving money into keeping the road open to the Dutch Miller Gap trailhead!!! |
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O like that wouldn't be a money pit that's always washed out if they spent all that money there instead.
This is King County money. They wouldn't likely have taken over maintenance for the last 6 miles , so we'd be in the same boat - Dutch Miller being inaccessible.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Bernardo Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2010 Posts: 2174 | TRs | Pics Location: out and about in the world |
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Bernardo
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Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:46 pm
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MtnGoat Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:05 pm
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Kim Brown wrote: | O like that wouldn't be a money pit that's always washed out if they spent all that money there instead.
This is King County money. They wouldn't likely have taken over maintenance for the last 6 miles , so we'd be in the same boat - Dutch Miller being inaccessible. |
Access on that stretch lasted longer with bare levels of maintenance, than the huge and expensive project results we are discussing here.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Cyclopath Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 7694 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:18 pm
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Are you telling us paving the road caused this rain fall?
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Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12798 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:07 pm
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BPJ wrote: | "...I would much rather they put that paving money into keeping the road open to..." |
When the Cispus River washed out several hundred yards of the #23 road just below the confluence of the mainline Cispus and the North Fork Cispus, I asked one of the project supervisors why they couldn't just replace the washed out asphalt-surfaced road with a gravel road.
I was told that a USFS regulation prohibited them from "downgrading" a road by going from asphalt to gravel.
I would guess that rule is most likely still in effect.
One of the big problems with roads washouts like that is that it's not enough to simply resurface the road. In many cases the material under the road surface has been compromised and all has to be replaced.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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MtnGoat Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:05 pm
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Methinks road regulations could use a good going over.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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BigBrunyon Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 1450 | TRs | Pics Location: the fitness gyms!! |
Love middle fork. Always have. Look you can get out no rules up there real quick
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Randito Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 9495 | TRs | Pics Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:32 pm
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MtnGoat wrote: | Methinks road regulations could use a good going over. |
Are you a civil engineer? Do you have a PE License?
Or do you just have an expert opinion on everything?
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nordique Member
Joined: 04 May 2008 Posts: 1086 | TRs | Pics
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nordique
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Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:48 pm
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Isn't this area on USFS land?
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Kim Brown Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 Posts: 6900 | TRs | Pics
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MtnGoat wrote: | Kim Brown wrote: | O like that wouldn't be a money pit that's always washed out if they spent all that money there instead.
This is King County money. They wouldn't likely have taken over maintenance for the last 6 miles , so we'd be in the same boat - Dutch Miller being inaccessible. |
Access on that stretch lasted longer with bare levels of maintenance, than the huge and expensive project results we are discussing here. |
Access to few people. The Snoqualmie Corridor plan is for access to all.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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tlake Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2004 Posts: 118 | TRs | Pics
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tlake
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Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:07 pm
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I can't tell who owns the right away except it shows as a Forest Service Rd in the KC Parcel Viewer. All the land on either side of the road near the washout is Forest Service owned.
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