Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > hunter decline
Previous :: Next Topic  
Author Message
BigBrunyon
Member
Member


Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 728 | TRs
Location: the fitness gyms!!
BigBrunyon
  Top

Member
PostMon Dec 23, 2019 11:28 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Go figure, America is not competing HARD enough relatively speaking! Theres food out to get and we're not even trying! Opting to eat small plates or vegetarian plates. Not a big fan of "small plate" culture and clearly its leading to this recent hunter decline!!!

--------------
I ALWAYS camp at the upper lake!
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 10548 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostMon Dec 23, 2019 11:41 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Brian R wrote:
We're talking about guns here

No, we're talking about hunting and how it relates to public lands management. People hunt with bows too.

The issues are access, and money needed for the stewardship of those public lands by our public lands management agencies. In the case of Washington State, the Department of Fish and Wildlife and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

Reduction in hunting licenses = less money = less enforcement action, fewer public land acquisition deals (of which there are no fewer than 18 under consideration presently), and fewer recreational opportunities for those who use public lands which are managed by WDFW or USFWS.

Fishing also needs to be part of this discussion, as the money from fishing license sales also goes to support WDFW.

This isn't about guns. It has nothing to do with guns. There's a separate thread for gun discussions HERE.

Mr. Workman was kind enough to outline several of the issues which currently exist, all of which warrant consideration and are worth discussing. The most important of those is the elephant in the living room: money.

It's entirely possible, and I believe more than likely, that WDFW needs to re-prioritize the use of the funds in its budget.
The conundrum, of course, is that the Endangered Species Act has at its very core the primary tenet of "at any cost". This is in direct conflict with the reality of there not being an endless supply of money.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Brian R
Member
Member


Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 254 | TRs
Location: Fircrest WA
Brian R
  Top

Member
PostTue Dec 24, 2019 12:15 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Very poor form, Ski. I'm afraid you've taken my comment about guns completely out of context--and are being a bit of an ass even if we mostly agree on the rest. My comment about guns was in anticipation of objections to my supposition that the bar is, perhaps, too high vis a vis obtaining a hunter safety training certificate. If you've ever looked at the course material, you would understand that a large part of it is, in fact, about firearm safety. (And being a bow hunter does not exempt you from taking and passing the course.) Carry on, smart guy.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Bernardo
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 2076 | TRs
Location: out and about in the world
Bernardo
  Top

Member
PostTue Dec 24, 2019 3:17 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
No, we are having a good conversation.  Chill and continue please.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 10548 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostTue Dec 24, 2019 3:32 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
grammatical error in above post corrected.

form should be just fine now.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
timberghost
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 404 | TRs

timberghost
  Top

Member
PostTue Dec 24, 2019 3:58 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
The cost of managing animals on the ESA is very expensive with most of the burden falling upon the state. The small return on that investment may or may not happen for years. Then there is the organizations that take states or federal departments to court costing those departments alot of money on reimbursement of attorney fees.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 10548 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostTue Dec 24, 2019 4:06 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
What return on investment?
Monetarily? How does that work with..... Mazama Pocket Gophers? Snowy Plovers? Oregon Spotted Frogs? Larch Mountain Salamanders?


The reimbursement of legal fees is done through the Equal Access to Justice Act, a federal statute. Is that money paid out by the State or the Federal government? (I'm not an attorney, so I don't know.)

Either way: it's that "at any cost" part that makes it unsustainable over the long term.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
cdestroyer
Member
Member


Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Posts: 529 | TRs
Location: montana
cdestroyer
  Top

Member
PostTue Dec 24, 2019 7:35 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I don't know about after 1973 requirement for the training course. I had to attend the course in 1960 in order to get a license. And it had a lot to do with safe handling of firearms and not a lot about how to hunt, tracking,spotting etc. Back then most everyone had some firearm at home and many hunted elk/deer/upland birds and even downland birds. We ate well! But now with less monies from logging and depending mostly on tax of sporting goods and higher costs to the hunters/fishermen griz will have to come here on there own cause we aint gonna haul em!
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Malachai Constant
Member
Member


Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 14446 | TRs
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny
Malachai Constant
  Top

Member
PostTue Dec 24, 2019 7:50 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
The decline in hunters has more to do with demographics, population distribution, and changing social mores than amount of game, license fees, or education costs. When I was young in a semi rural area the beginning of deer season was looked forward to and prepared fore more than Halloween. Recreational hiking was mostly done by a group of cranky Scandinavians. Now hiking is a spot of the masses and hunting more of a fringe activity. Not right or wrong just the way it is.

--------------
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 10548 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostTue Dec 24, 2019 9:40 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Quote:
The decline in hunters has more to do with demographics, population distribution, and changing social mores than amount of game, license fees, or education costs. When I was young in a semi rural area the beginning of deer season was looked forward to and prepared fore more than Halloween. Recreational hiking was mostly done by a group of cranky Scandinavians. Now hiking is a spot of the masses and hunting more of a fringe activity. Not right or wrong just the way it is.

^ pretty much nailed it here.

but..... you really think we Scandinavians are cranky? dizzy.gif

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 9438 | TRs
Location: Don't move here
treeswarper
  Top

Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostTue Dec 24, 2019 10:43 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Who will pay for the wolves and griz and whatever other troublesome species deemed to be dump worthy in the name of restoration?

Dump defined as in dumped from one of those bear barrel traps on wheels.   Or helicoptered in.

--------------
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Malachai Constant
Member
Member


Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 14446 | TRs
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny
Malachai Constant
  Top

Member
PostTue Dec 24, 2019 12:23 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski wrote:
^ pretty much nailed it here.

but..... you really think we Scandinavians are cranky? dizzy.gif

I am half Scandinavian and kinda cranky clown.gif

--------------
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 10548 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostTue Dec 24, 2019 2:02 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
treeswarper wrote:
"Who will pay for the..."

You.

Me.

Everybody else.

This is the sort of thing I was referring to above when I suggested that WDFW needs to reassess their priorities.
Again, the conundrum is that they're charged by Congress to comply with the ESA at any cost, notwithstanding fiscal reality.
In the case of the wolf, even when WDFW and USFWS are in full compliance with both the ESA and the terms of the Washington State Wolf Management Plan that the interested parties (such as Center for Biological Diversity and Defenders of Wildlife) all agreed to, when it comes time to de-list the wolf, or start issuing wolf hunting permits, those same groups turn around and file lawsuits which are brought up before sympathetic judges, as has already happened elsewhere.

Perhaps it will finally reach a tipping point when all of the hunters and fishermen decide they've had enough and they all stop buying licenses.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 9438 | TRs
Location: Don't move here
treeswarper
  Top

Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostTue Dec 24, 2019 3:46 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
The decline of hunting is mentioned in this article.

Bad Turkeys

--------------
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
timberghost
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 404 | TRs

timberghost
  Top

Member
PostTue Dec 24, 2019 6:51 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I know alot of hunters and a high portion are now hunting in Idaho and Montana. For most it's about opportunity to possible harvest a deer or elk. The success rate for the general season has dropped off to somewhere around 5%.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
  Display:     All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > hunter decline
  Happy Birthday noahk!
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
   Use Disclaimer Powered by phpBB Privacy Policy