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carlb328 Member
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 327 | TRs | Pics Location: Yakima, WA |
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carlb328
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Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:44 am
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neek Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2011 Posts: 2336 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle, WA |
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neek
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Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:16 am
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It's not safe out there. Best to stay home.
Sam was 2018 btw.
You're right though, it would be nice to see some actual numbers. You could just be experiencing availability bias. Also, what counts? Heart attacks? Avalanches? Suicides? And consider the increase in overall outdoor activity. In general the world is getting safer, but sometimes there are isolated regressions, so I dunno. Be prepared for a string of rants from old guys about how people are getting stupider.
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Cyclopath Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 7721 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:04 am
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ANAM publishes detailed statistics and analysis for climbers. It would be interesting to see something like that for hiking.
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OldGuyz Member
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OldGuyz
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Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:39 am
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neek wrote: | Be prepared for a string of rants from old guys about how people are getting stupider. |
Perhaps it's just the increase in population that accounts for more stupid people.
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BigBrunyon Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 1456 | TRs | Pics Location: the fitness gyms!! |
I consider myself much smarter than others when I'm on the trail!! That's my go-to mindset
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Cyclopath Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 7721 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:48 am
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OldGuyz wrote: | neek wrote: | Be prepared for a string of rants from old guys about how people are getting stupider. |
Perhaps it's just the increase in population that accounts for more stupid people. |
Does the increase in population account for the increase in ranting?
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Slugman It’s a Slugfest!
Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 16874 | TRs | Pics
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
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Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:06 am
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I think the comment “hearing of” in the original post says a lot. Did more things happen, or did we hear about things more? Sam Sayers is a prime example, one person, two years ago, statistically that is nothing.
I wonder if anyone compiles an annual list of hiking or wilderness accidents or deaths. Seems unlikely as so many agencies would be involved, and what would you include or exclude?
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Brushwork Food truck
Joined: 18 Aug 2018 Posts: 508 | TRs | Pics Location: Washington |
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Brushwork
Food truck
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Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:15 pm
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Of the accidents that I know about, ie friends or family.... none of them were caused by stupidity. Sometimes mistakes might of been made, but none were stupid.
When I grow up I wanna play.
When I grow up I wanna play.
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Mikey Member
Joined: 04 Sep 2003 Posts: 737 | TRs | Pics Location: SW Washington |
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Mikey
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Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:48 am
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Apparently most of the hikers in these accidents were solo (except for the Iron Cap Mtn hiker fall Aug 2019). Possibly there are some people unaccustomed to off-trail or steep trail travel. As a kid, I can recall my city kid friends going hiking or hunting with me in the woods (not on trails) and how they were not used to travel through rough terrain (age12-15). The city kids lived in areas with paved streets and sidewalks whereas my parents' place was located where there were gravel roads, no sidewalks, no baseball fields, no parks, and so kids played in the woods. The Seattle Mountaineers kept records of basic climbing class students and there were a few students who were "accident prone" at field trips and later accident prone on basic experience climbs. So probably stupidity has little to do with the hiker accidents. Perhaps lack of steep trail, off trail, and hiking and scrambling in rocky terrain are involved. Navigation skills also might be involved. I was impressed at how my Dad seemed to navigate as we hiked (off trail through old-growth forest) to remote lakes for fishing using dead reckoning whereas I was using map, compass, and altimeter.
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snowmonkey Member
Joined: 23 May 2014 Posts: 88 | TRs | Pics
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Mikey wrote: | city kids lived in areas with paved streets and sidewalks |
Correlation between metropolitan area population increase of elaborately decked out REI millennials on trails and SAR events would be an interesting read. I feel the gear industry is selling snake-oil confidence with many of their items, perhaps contributing to solo hikers finding themselves in unprepared terrain or situations.
Ocian in view! O! The joy!
William Clark
Ocian in view! O! The joy!
William Clark
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MangyMarmot Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2012 Posts: 474 | TRs | Pics
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Every year a number of people die in the mountains from falls, avalanches, medical issues, etc. The mainstream media doesn't report most of them. This year we've had a few stories that the media has picked up, but I'm not sure that the overall number is higher than normal.
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moonspots Happy Curmudgeon
Joined: 03 Feb 2007 Posts: 2456 | TRs | Pics Location: North Dakota |
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
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Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:49 am
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Mikey wrote: | I was impressed at how my Dad seemed to navigate as we hiked (off trail through old-growth forest) to remote lakes for fishing using dead reckoning whereas I was using map, compass, and altimeter. |
Yeah, I also learned "land nav" from dad when we were out deer hunting in Oregon. The first time I actually got "lost" was when I was using a compass to determine my way back to dad when he asked me to retrieve something from the car. I carefully read the compass on the way to the car (as I was "dead reckoning" my way there), then carefully mis-computed the math for the return and ended up maybe 1/4 - 1/2 mile from my start when I got to the edge of the bluff. I was sure where I was as compared to where I was supposed to be, and was correct. I'll have to figure out this compass business later I figured.
I've used this same method for finding my way around ever since, and in big cities with lots of tall buildings or hills this is especially useful. Well, except years ago in west Chicago on an overcast day such that north was indistinguishable from west, etc. I finally had to buy a street map to sort it all out...
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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BigBrunyon Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 1456 | TRs | Pics Location: the fitness gyms!! |
snowmonkey wrote: | solo hikers finding themselves in unprepared terrain |
I've been saying this for years! The terrain needs to prepare for ME not the other way round
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Downhill Member
Joined: 30 Jul 2018 Posts: 340 | TRs | Pics Location: Leavenworth |
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Downhill
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Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:59 am
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I'm guessing that with social media and internet news reporting, there is probably more wide-spread awareness of incidents. And as others have said, the increase in popularity and regional population, in general, will result in more incidents.
That said, without any stats to back up my statement, I think the sport is getting safer with better clothing, shelters, route beta, mobile navigation devices, rescue beacons, etc....
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forest gnome Forest nut...
Joined: 24 Apr 2003 Posts: 3520 | TRs | Pics Location: north cascades!! |
I've wanted to start a similar thread...usuallly the timing is not good after the losses...
there should be some detailed accident report or thread where friends that were there or rescuer's can give the simple basic facts of what happened....
not for pure climbers...mostly for Backpackers, even including injury's and how the party was rescued or self-rescued..
I do remember a super popular pair? of guys from this sight... of climbers who were descending in a storm, very experienced bad vis...there was a whole discussion (from the survivor) about the details of what happend....basically one went behind a boulder to put on a shell jacket, the other gentleman took a wrong turn a short distance and fell through a cornice...tragic loss for all the friends here who climbed with them..will try to look up the story again as we can all learn from these story's.
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