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Chief Joseph
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PostWed Jan 29, 2020 12:29 pm 
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neek wrote:
Respect for truth, which can erode so quickly.  I hope humanity will one day move beyond simple good/bad thinking.  We all know we've got a little bit of both.

So at your funeral, your family would be ok with others listing all the wrongs you have committed as well as your good deeds-contributions in your life?

Washakie wrote:
"You can't handle the truth".....according to Jack.

Jack who, Nicholson? He was a huge Kobe fan, so I doubt he would speak ill of him.

Even if he was guilty of rape, I still feel it's shows a lack of class to bring it up upon upon someones death, he was likely not the "same person" when he was younger and dumber with raging hormones, but that also is debatable.

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fourteen410
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PostWed Jan 29, 2020 12:35 pm 
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Chief Joseph wrote:
Curious as to what motivates people to do that? huh.gif

Reality.

If no one ever spoke ill of the dead, history would be all sunshine and rainbows. Death does not absolve you of your wrongs.

Is Kobe's death unfortunate? Yes. Was he an amazing athlete? Yes. Did he do morally vacant things and hurt others in the process? Yes.

When you die, you leave a legacy, both good and bad. My issue lies solely with the idea that he was a terrific person. Not by a long shot.

Chief Joseph wrote:
So at your funeral, your family would be ok with others listing all the wrongs you have committed as well as your good deeds-contributions in your life?

We're not at his funeral.
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Chief Joseph
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PostWed Jan 29, 2020 12:42 pm 
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As for me, I leave it up to the God of my belief and understanding to judge, apparently others feel differently. <shrug>.

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neek
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PostWed Jan 29, 2020 12:42 pm 
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Chief Joseph wrote:
So at your funeral, your family would be ok with others listing all the wrongs you have committed as well as your good deeds-contributions in your life?

This isn't a funeral, it's a thread on a hiking forum that his family will never read.  Plus I've never done anything wrong.
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neek
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PostWed Jan 29, 2020 12:45 pm 
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Chief Joseph wrote:
As for me, I leave it up to the God of my belief and understanding to judge, apparently others feel differently. <shrug>.

I believe there is a lot of power to this philosophy, but wouldn't it also implore you not to judge those who you may see as judging?
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RandyHiker
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PostWed Jan 29, 2020 12:47 pm 
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Chief Joseph wrote:
Even if he was guilty of rape, I still feel it's shows a lack of class to bring it upon upon someones death.

The thread started with:

gb wrote:
He seemed like a really terrific human being.

Is your assertion that sandbagging the dark aspects of the deceased is "classy" ?
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Tom
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PostWed Jan 29, 2020 1:44 pm 
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The assertion was he was a rapist.  There's a possibility he was and a possibility he wasn't.  Nobody knows for sure except those involved.  There was also an assertion was he was a philanderer.  Pretty clear he was, at least at some point during his life.  If he was a philanderer but not a rapist would the point have been brought up?  I'm guessing no, not that it makes him a terrific human being.  I think gb's comment was in reference to other aspects of his life.
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RandyHiker
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PostWed Jan 29, 2020 2:11 pm 
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Tom wrote:
The assertion was he was a rapist.

It is more than an assertion.    In Kobe's civil settlement with the woman he admits that it was not consensual from the point of view of the woman in question.

Kobe Bryant wrote:
First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colo. I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case. Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter. I issue this statement today fully aware that while one part of this case ends today, another remains. I understand that the civil case against me will go forward. That part of this case will be decided by and between the parties directly involved in the incident and will no longer be a financial or emotional drain on the citizens of the state of Colorado.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kobe-bryants-disturbing-rape-case-the-dna-evidence-the-accusers-story-and-the-half-confession
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MtnGoat
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PostWed Jan 29, 2020 2:19 pm 
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Chief Joseph wrote:
Whatever. I guess I simply choose to focus upon the positive attributes of a persons life, not the negatives, especially when they are deceased.

Besides, when an "Alleged" crime is committed, many times only the two people who where actually present at the time know what really happened. There are many details of a crime that the public will never know, yet that act like they know everything.

up.gif

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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olderthanIusedtobe
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PostWed Jan 29, 2020 2:47 pm 
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The rape allegation is a serious matter that should not be taken lightly.

If philandering makes a man unworthy of admiration...well there goes probably most politicians, athletes and entertainers.
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Malachai Constant
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PostWed Jan 29, 2020 3:02 pm 
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It is not a question for us to judge at this point.

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"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Backpacker Joe
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PostWed Jan 29, 2020 3:24 pm 
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The entire situation seems strange to me.  Its been reported that the Sikorsky S-76 (very expensive/advanced helicopter) was descending (read losing altitude) at OVER 2000' feet per minute.  In helicopter terms that's almost like an auto rotation to the ground.  That's what you must do when you lose power in a helicopter if your'e going to have any chance at survival.  If that's the case you CANT successfully do that UNLESS you can see the ground, they couldn't see the ground.  If it turns out that was the case, the poor buggers were doomed the second they lost power.  Sad, and frankly a very terrifying way to die.

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

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Schenk
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PostWed Jan 29, 2020 3:32 pm 
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Putting anyone on a pedestal and/or focusing on only their non-offensive attributes is judging too.
Disliking someone for past unsavory behavior is just a different judgment from those who are gushing over someone because of a couple good points.

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Schenk
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PostWed Jan 29, 2020 3:34 pm 
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Backpacker Joe wrote:
Sad, and frankly a very terrifying way to die.

I think we all agree on that
RIP all who perished.

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Chief Joseph
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PostWed Jan 29, 2020 4:26 pm 
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neek wrote:
Chief Joseph wrote:
As for me, I leave it up to the God of my belief and understanding to judge, apparently others feel differently. <shrug>.

I believe there is a lot of power to this philosophy, but wouldn't it also implore you not to judge those who you may see as judging?

Not sure that I am "judging" anyone, mostly trying to understand the reason why people need to bring it up, and I have received some decent answers and it has made for a good discussion. I fancy myself somewhat of an amateur psychologist so I am interested in what makes people's minds work.



I also find it interesting that the the Media (as hated by some and as drama driven as they are) have not ONCE (since his death) mentioned Kobe's past transgressions, at least the Spokane local stations and ABC world news that I watch, yet internet social media individuals choose to bring it up.

WE nearly all know about it, so why bring it up after his death? Imho, there was plenty of coverage about it after the fact when he was alive.

So imho, people who have brought it up have less class than the news media and that is sad.

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