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PostFri Feb 21, 2014 4:22 pm 

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Chico
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PostFri Feb 21, 2014 8:34 pm 
NO camping, dogs, bicycles, fires, or livestock in the restricted area between the South Fork Toutle River and Windy Pass. This 10 miles section is to be completed in one day. Please plan accordingly. Off trail travel is prohibited without a special use permit.

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Chico
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PostSat Feb 22, 2014 1:29 pm 
My opinion and mine alone - You're on the west side of the crater and not in the "face" of the crater. You're "south" of the river (one could "argue" that.) Stay west of the rib or ridge between the glacier and the "Breach" and I think you'd be okay. Mt Saint Helens - GMap4 map showing GPNF trails If you intend to take a peak from the rim, don't fall in. Wouldn't want you ruining it for those to follow. And the more I cogitate on it, They are talking the entire trail which goes around the mountain. They don't want you on the slopes unless it's the one trail to the south rim. See if they'll give you a permit. Never hurts to ask.

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ScottP
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PostSat Feb 22, 2014 3:56 pm 
Comparing Chico's GMap4 with this fs.usda.gov map sure makes it look like the Toutle and Talus Glaciers are in the climbing permit zone.

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Chico
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PostSun Feb 23, 2014 12:02 pm 
We have the usfs saying "The Worm Flows Climbing Route is the primary route used by climbers during the winter and early spring. Climbers should be prepared for winter climbing conditions. Climbers can accesse the winter route via the Marble Mountain Sno- Park and the Swift Ski Trail # 244. " Note the word "primary". They list two routes - Monitor Ridge Climing Route/Summer and Worm Flows Climbing Route/Winter. You can ask but I'll bet you'll get turned down. They want to control access, knowing where folks are at and hoping they don't wander into the "breach". No sense in sneaking in since you would be in full view of the Johnston Ridge observatory. Probably have a bunch of black helicopters circling you when you hit the glaciers.

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markh752
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markh752
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PostSun Feb 23, 2014 8:16 pm 
USFS map of Mt St Helens. Compare that with a topo map. My guestimate is that the Toutle River headwaters (Toutle and Talus Glaciers) are within the climbing permit area (above 4800'). The Wishbone Glacier appears to be in the restricted zone.
Doppelganger wrote:
...I think I'll call the FS this week...
Good luck with that. Trying to get a straight/honest answer about the immediate Mt St Helens area is like pulling teeth. They assume that you are an idiot and your only hiking experience consists of walking Green Lake. Misdirection seems to be one of their tactics to dissuade any hiking other than Monitor Ridge or the Worm Flows routes. shakehead.gif

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SeanSullivan86
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PostMon Feb 24, 2014 12:16 am 
Overlayed the map markh provided on top of the USGS topo (just did a rough estimate scaling/aligning them). The boundary is a complex enough shape in that map that I believe there's probably some underlying GIS data available from the USFS somewhere. Also, if you zoom in on the map from markh enough you can get a pretty good idea of where the boundary lies from the shaded relief on the map. It does not appear that the boundary is the ridge dividing the North Fork and South Fork Toutle River watersheds. Part of the watershed of the South Fork is in the restricted area. The boundary seems to run along the northern edge of the "Toutle Glacier" on the map, but I suspect that wouldn't be a particularly obvious boundary, especially in winter/spring. Roughly, you could follow the western crater rim until around 7600' and then head WNW down the fall line towards the South Fork Toutle. On the east side, it appears to follow the rim until Point 6904, then down the fall line, crossing through the Forsyth Glacier and following the more eastern of the two parallel streams before running into Zone 3 at 4800'.

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NacMacFeegle
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PostMon Feb 24, 2014 11:54 am 
I think it is about time they reevaluated the management policies in the monument. The unroaded areas should be designated wilderness and they should do away with the restriction against cross country travel. To anyone who has traveled extensively in the monument it is clear that it has recovered enough to permit off-trail travel. Besides, any number of hikers couldn't do as much damage as the elk do! I wouldn't care about cross country travel if the trail system was better laid out; There needs to be a trail from the Hummocks trail to Castle Lake, A short and steep route to the top of Coldwater Peak, a shortcut route to bypass the hazardous section a few miles East of the Johnson Ridge Visitor center, and there needs to be a trail branching off of the Loowit trail to provide access to Spirit Lake. I have a long list of other ways in which the monument could be improved, but it would take all day to list them here!

Read my hiking related stories and more at http://illuminationsfromtheattic.blogspot.com/
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NorthwestWanderer
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PostSat Feb 15, 2020 10:01 pm 
NacMacFeegle wrote:
I think it is about time they reevaluated the management policies in the monument. The unroaded areas should be designated wilderness and they should do away with the restriction against cross country travel. To anyone who has traveled extensively in the monument it is clear that it has recovered enough to permit off-trail travel. Besides, any number of hikers couldn't do as much damage as the elk do! I wouldn't care about cross country travel if the trail system was better laid out; There needs to be a trail from the Hummocks trail to Castle Lake, A short and steep route to the top of Coldwater Peak, a shortcut route to bypass the hazardous section a few miles East of the Johnson Ridge Visitor center, and there needs to be a trail branching off of the Loowit trail to provide access to Spirit Lake. I have a long list of other ways in which the monument could be improved, but it would take all day to list them here!
100% agreed

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Randito
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PostSat Feb 15, 2020 10:49 pm 
Snowmobile riders ascend to the crater rim on a regular basis. Most of the users of the Marble mountain sno-park are snowmobile riders. Snowmobile riders and dealers are well organised and know which politicians to lobby to ensure riders have places to rider on their $20K machines. The razzers seem to do pretty good job of "sticking to their lane" and not invading the main climbing route area. Occationally some machines "get lost" and circumnavigate the Crater glacier -- but there are huge fines for this sort of violation -- potentially as much as the cost of a new sled, so it is rare.

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