Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Question, are hikers anti family snobs?
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Cyclopath
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PostSat Feb 22, 2020 8:35 pm 
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You're telling us ATVs should be allowed on every trail there is, because some people are disabled?
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Randito
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PostSat Feb 22, 2020 9:03 pm 
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Maybe the issue isn't age or disability -- but lack of will

https://products.kitsapsun.com/archive/2000/06-19/0008_mount_rainier__paralyzed_climber_.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/14/business/retirementspecial/why-older-runners-are-ultrarunners.html
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Logbear
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PostSat Feb 22, 2020 9:37 pm 
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Forest Service Manual 2353.05
“Wheelchair or Mobility Device. A device, including one that is battery-powered, that is designed solely for use by a mobility-impaired person for locomotion, and that is suitable for use in an indoor pedestrian area. A person whose disability requires use of a wheelchair or mobility device may use a wheelchair or mobility device that meets this definition anywhere foot travel is allowed.”
Application of definition of a Wheelchair (per ADA Title V Section 508c; 36 CFR 212.1 and FSM 2353.05): “Designed solely for use by a mobility-impaired person” means that the original design and manufacture of the device was only for the purpose of mobility by a person who has a limitation on their ability to walk. A wheelchair or mobility device, even one that is a battery powered, that meets this definition is allowed anywhere foot travel is allowed even in federally designated Wilderness.
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Tom
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PostSun Feb 23, 2020 1:41 am 
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Sculpin wrote:
frown.gif

It was worth a try to see if things would get better, but now I am wondering if maybe the best thing would be to get rid of the stewardship thread entirely.   shakehead.gif

In a way the lunacy of WaState's arguments seems to evoke rational responses and make this place look less like a looney bin.
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Schroder
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PostSun Feb 23, 2020 9:07 am 
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WaState wrote:
https://www.atvcourse.com/blog/2011/06/atv-riders-with-disabilities/


Sort of hard to hike a trail if paralyzed from the waist down.

Right ??

So here you've given an example of groups that are helping to accommodate people with disabilities in outdoor recreation - contrary to your original argument that access is being taken away.  Where I live on Whidbey Island, a group is currently working with the Parks Department to create the first wheelchair accessible beach with ramps they can lay down over the sand in the summer.
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Sculpin
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PostSun Feb 23, 2020 9:32 am 
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Tom wrote:
In a way the lunacy of WaState's arguments seems to evoke rational responses and make this place look less like a looney bin.

By golly, you are right.   hockeygrin.gif

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Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
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WaState
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PostSun Feb 23, 2020 11:30 am 
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So when I advocate for more open multi usage of lands that is so  offensive, the rational response is shutting down the land stewardship forum ?

This response is beyond anything I can imagine except for a script for the next hunger games movie.

Curious what do you guys think will happen to land stewardship for hiking trails when the USA can not borrow money anymore? Note, then the Gov will be bankrupted, the urban masses starving and only the elites flush with cash.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Here is my personal agenda here.  More open multi usage of outdoors land. This includes, (not excludes), it includes hikers, horses, boaters, hunters, families, children, disabled, elderly (the infirm) and off roaders. Divide and rule games by the elites does not improve multi land usage access in my opinion..  Multi usage land puts more people on that land who wants to it keep going and open.

If the land stewardship forum is the forum clearly for the membership to actually exist as trail hikers.
Who would be against this???  Really. Who is on the payroll I wonder???
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Cyclopath
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PostSun Feb 23, 2020 12:02 pm 
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WaState wrote:
So when I advocate for more open multi usage of lands that is so  offensive, the rational response is shutting down the land stewardship forum ?

Did you read the replies people wrote you?

Logbear wrote:
Forest Service Manual 2353.05
“Wheelchair or Mobility Device. A device, including one that is battery-powered, that is designed solely for use by a mobility-impaired person for locomotion, and that is suitable for use in an indoor pedestrian area. A person whose disability requires use of a wheelchair or mobility device may use a wheelchair or mobility device that meets this definition anywhere foot travel is allowed.”
Application of definition of a Wheelchair (per ADA Title V Section 508c; 36 CFR 212.1 and FSM 2353.05): “Designed solely for use by a mobility-impaired person” means that the original design and manufacture of the device was only for the purpose of mobility by a person who has a limitation on their ability to walk. A wheelchair or mobility device, even one that is a battery powered, that meets this definition is allowed anywhere foot travel is allowed even in federally designated Wilderness.

Grannyhiker wrote:
WaState, I am one of those elderly hikers who (per your definition) is no longer a "real" hiker.

There are plenty of short, easy (although crowded) trails that I plan to continue to enjoy as long as I can manage to put one foot in front of another and slowly hobble a half mile and back again.  Many of these trails are handicap-accessible (on those, I can manage a mile each way).

There is absolutely no way I would attempt to use a motorized offroad vehicle!  For one thing, I have also reached the age and stage at which I have to restrict my driving.  For another, I definitely don't have the strength to handle an ORV on rough terrain.  Finally, I detest the noise and terrain destruction of motorized offroad vehicles and certainly would never try to use one!

Up until recently, I regularly took my grandkids on hiking and backpacking trips.   Even a 4-year-old can hike 4-5 miles!  There are plenty of great places to go a few miles in from the trailhead.  Of course by now the grandkids are grown up and going out on their own!
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Slugman
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It’s a Slugfest!
PostSun Feb 23, 2020 12:37 pm 
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People who hate wilderness and want to stab environmentalists in the back have often tried to use the disabled as pawns in their dishonest attempts to destroy all of God’s works for money or spite.

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“The jerking motion of a knee does not reflect the operation of a mind”  Slugman, January 24th 2020
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Grannyhiker
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PostSun Feb 23, 2020 4:13 pm 
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Thanks, Slugman!  I, for one, fiercely resent being used as a pawn!

My opinion is that we need to move in the direction of more handicap-accessible trails, not more roads for ORVs.  People with limited walking ability need more chances to pursue peace and quiet and beauty!

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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view.--E.Abbey
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dave allyn
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PostSun Feb 23, 2020 8:46 pm 
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I agree with Tom. I already had wa state on ignore so I have only had a pleasant time with this thread. The salmon recipe sounds good.
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Backpackapalooza
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PostMon Feb 24, 2020 11:34 am 
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WaState- not sure what you are trying to accomplish other than rant and piss people off, which doesn't foster any sort of conversation. What sort of coherent policy are you advocating? That all land that is managed by Federal or State entities allow universal access by anyone, through any means they want? Should we pave all wilderness trails? Allow ATVs everywhere? What exactly do you wish would happen? As pointed out by many others, there are currently options for disabled, in particular. Is it perfect? No. But it's also very unrealistic to advocate that a disabled person should be able to gain access to any wilderness, anywhere. It's physically impossible.

Anyway- it's too bad you took the route you did. You seem like an angry person with an axe to grind. That's not a great way to go through life. I wish you well.
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BigBrunyon
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PostTue Feb 25, 2020 5:09 pm 
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I definitely look down my nose at anyone who isn't goin' hard out there. Makes me feel superior. Sometimes I spend the whole drive home thinking about what the conversations must be like in the cars of those I blew past on the trail. "Wow, that guy was really going fast, no way we'd ever be able to compete with him..." Must be sad!!

I know they're thinking about me the whole way home! Me on the other hand, I'm just thinking about how tight I am and how these other people look up to me so much.

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I ALWAYS camp at the upper lake!!!
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RayD
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PostTue Feb 25, 2020 7:15 pm 
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What brand of motorized wheelchair do you use?  lol.gif

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don't believe everything you think
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mb
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PostTue Feb 25, 2020 8:30 pm 
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There absolutely are elements of elitism, racism, and naiveté in the history and present of the "environmental" movement.

But taking this tact doesn't seem to have granted you anyone willing to listen to it! And it's certainly not the entirety of the movement.

(Naiveté you ask? I know one suburban open space district where the environmentalist locals got regulations enacted that there be no man made structures. Now those very same people are old and want some benches to rest on, but the district is like "sorry you can't have them, because when you were young you prohibited them for all future users." Actually the district is much nicer than that and has placed some conveniently shaped rocks at some suitable location... but is that violating the spirit of the prohibition or not?)
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Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Question, are hikers anti family snobs?
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