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Bob2005 Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Posts: 52 | TRs | Pics
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Bob2005
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Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:53 pm
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I heard (I know; that means nothing and that's why I'm posting here) that sleeping in your vehicle in cold weather may actually be colder than sleeping outside, due to the cold penetrating the vehicle's metal and transmitting that inside the vehicle.
Of course there are many variables: how cold; what is the temperature variation overnight; maybe humidity; is it windy outside; do you have a tent; do you have an insulating pad and sleeping bag, etc.
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Cyclopath Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 7740 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:20 pm
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If you prefer the engine running for heat, that will definitely be warmer.
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texasbb Misplaced Texan
Joined: 30 Mar 2009 Posts: 1153 | TRs | Pics Location: Tri-Cities, WA |
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texasbb
Misplaced Texan
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Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:34 pm
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Would you be lying there touching all that metal? If not, you'll probably be warmer in the vehicle. No wind, protection from direct radiative losses to the sky, etc. You need a little ventilation, of course. On the other hand, if you're built like me you won't fit in your car in any sleepable position, so ugh.
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christensent Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2011 Posts: 658 | TRs | Pics
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I've never experienced a car being colder than what I'd imagine outside being like.
The physics there don't really make sense, this would only hold up if the tent alternative were insulated (in which case, yes the car would be colder). In reality, the walls of a tent prevent air-flow which helps build up some heat, but I don't think they're really insulators. I bet a car's wall is actually a better insulator than a tent wall. Overall I'd classify what you heard as most-likely-a-myth.
Learning mountaineering: 10% technical knowledge, 90% learning how to eat
Learning mountaineering: 10% technical knowledge, 90% learning how to eat
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Randito Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:36 pm
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Sleeping inside the vehicle is way better than sleeping outside.
There are some challenges, the main one being build up of condensation from breathing. Cracking a window near your head helps with that. So does having a squeegee and a microfiber rag for wiping off the window from the inside. When it is really cold, you get frost on the inside. In a modern vehicle, this is most easily dealt with by running the engine and defroster. In my old '69 VW bus, a propane fueled catalytic heater was much more effective at defrosting the windows than waiting the eternity required for heat from the engine to defrost anything. I never drove the bus with the cat heater running, but it sure speeded up getting going on winter mornings.
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MyFootHurts Huge Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2011 Posts: 912 | TRs | Pics Location: Kekistan |
I think most of the heat escapes through the window glass.
I notice that using one of those foil sunscreen things over the windshield really keeps the car warmer longer.
I was also colder using an inflatable air mattress. You'll just have cold air underneath you as opposed to upholstery and plastic.
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blendergasket Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2014 Posts: 168 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
I've spent many, many nights in n my van and it is definitely warmer than outside.
I'm 98 degrees and it's a small space, so I warm it up.
"He who would understand the Book of Nature must walk its pages with his feet"
~Paracelsus
"He who would understand the Book of Nature must walk its pages with his feet"
~Paracelsus
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Sky Hiker Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2007 Posts: 1469 | TRs | Pics Location: outside |
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treeswarper Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11277 | TRs | Pics Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:40 am
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Take a dog along, preferably a large one. Retrievers put out a lot of heat. Just make sure you are feeding them food that doesn't cause farting. I've slept comfortably in a teardrop trailer with my Used Dog in December.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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blendergasket Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2014 Posts: 168 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
treeswarper wrote: | Take a dog along, preferably a large one. Retrievers put out a lot of heat. Just make sure you are feeding them food that doesn't cause farting. |
Wouldn't the farting add warmth?
"He who would understand the Book of Nature must walk its pages with his feet"
~Paracelsus
"He who would understand the Book of Nature must walk its pages with his feet"
~Paracelsus
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flatsqwerl Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2010 Posts: 1049 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
but is the dog losing a bit of core heat when he farts...?
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blendergasket Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2014 Posts: 168 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
The dog is transferring the heat into the car so both of you can partake of it. Dogs are such giving creatures.
"He who would understand the Book of Nature must walk its pages with his feet"
~Paracelsus
"He who would understand the Book of Nature must walk its pages with his feet"
~Paracelsus
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Sculpin Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2015 Posts: 1383 | TRs | Pics
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Sculpin
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Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:06 am
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Hey, I took Heat Transfer in college!
In cold weather, the car cannot get colder than the surrounding air.
Your body can lose heat in three ways:
1. Conduction: this is what texasbb meant. Metal has high thermal conductivity, so any body part in contact will cool more rapidly. But just having cold metal near you won't do anything.
2. Convection: moving air can carry more heat away by enhanced conduction. But that only happens outside your car, if there is air moving through your tent.
3. Radiation: your body radiates heat because it is warmer than the surroundings. A sleeping bag slows conduction and prevents much convection, but modern bags and some sleeping pads also have a flash layer of aluminized polymer to reflect your radiant heat back to you. Radiant heat loss is not a function of whether you are inside or outside of your car.
The one thing I can think of that might matter is the moisture increase mentioned by others. If your breath increases the humidity in the car, and the moisture cools (which it would), then you are breathing in cold moist air. The moisture increases the mass (substantially!) of the air you are breathing, which increases conduction in your lungs, so you would breathe out more heat with every breath. Your exposed skin would also conduct more heat into the moist air. The problem is that cold air cannot hold much moisture so it condenses out.
On the other hand, your warm breath will warm the car a few degrees just like inside a tent. Add it all up and I think the car is warmer.
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
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timberghost Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Posts: 1331 | TRs | Pics
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So the dogs fart falls under moving air?
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Washakie Member
Joined: 18 Aug 2010 Posts: 402 | TRs | Pics Location: Ann Arbor, MI |
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Washakie
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Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:33 am
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For those old enough to remember, there used to be a rock group called Three Dog Night.
The name came from a northern native term for how cold it was over night and using the pups to keep warm.
"What is the color when black is burned?" - Neil Young
"We're all normal when we want our freedom" - Arthur Lee
"The internet can make almost anyone seem intelligent" - Washakie
"What is the color when black is burned?" - Neil Young
"We're all normal when we want our freedom" - Arthur Lee
"The internet can make almost anyone seem intelligent" - Washakie
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