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Bedivere
Why Do Witches Burn?



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Why Do Witches Burn?
PostThu May 28, 2020 2:42 am 
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...their newfound power over almost the entirety of human life has been too exhilarating to give up now.

How does government and the corporate interests to which it tapdances benefit from crippling the economy?

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cdestroyer
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PostThu May 28, 2020 7:23 am 
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OH BOY! you gotta read this one!!!



http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/analysis-the-end-of-life-as-we-know-it-get-real/ar-BB14Hzj2?li=BBnbfcN
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



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Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostThu May 28, 2020 7:47 am 
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We've never had a "lock down".  We've been able to go outside, recreate locally, shop for groceries and necessities, garden, visit with neighbors (although having to talk loudly due to distancing) etc.  That's not what I would call a lock down unless I was into drama.   embarassedlaugh.gif

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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



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PostFri May 29, 2020 12:27 pm 
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Mask wearing is getting made to be quite political.   My friend got chewed out for wearing one in the local feed store!  Guess I won't go there ever again.  Then there's this opinion blurb. 

Wenatchee World Opinion Piece

I will be making some more, but noticed my nose goes numb after a mask wearing adventure.

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zephyr
aka friendly hiker



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aka friendly hiker
PostFri May 29, 2020 4:06 pm 
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Speaking of masks...

Here's a new article about aerosols.  (Edit:  I just now added some quotes and added more comments.)  This is not necessarily good news.   Regarding this aerosol info, I have read similar information in other sources lately. 

This news makes me think more about the few interactions that I have mainly with folks outside in passing.  Usually I'll have a bandana at the ready, but often find that we end up talking without masks.  Often times I am the guilty one by being friendly and eager for a quick exchange of information and good will whether in the neighborhood, or in the mountains.  I am more business-like when doing food runs or errand/trips. 

I notice my radar pinging when I realize we're getting a bit close or I am downwind and feel the breeze coming from them towards me. frown.gif   I try to keep my distance, but now with these new findings--how far is far enough?  Yesterday while walking down the road near Goldmyer turnoff, I caught drift of someone's pipe tobacco.  The above article doesn't give much safety to bandanas.  But something is better than nothing.  In the city, I wear a surgical mask and a bandana.  I want to order some cloth ones.  It's a constantly shifting field--this pandemic.  So many new behaviors and habits to adapt and remember. 

Quotes from the above article linked: May 27, 2020 -- Something has been bothering Kimberly Prather, PhD: Everything she reads about COVID-19 points to a pathogen that travels through the air.

There’s how quickly it has spread around the world, studies showing how it spreads through restaurants (maybe by the air conditioning system?), how it attacked a church choir even though they were spread apart while they were singing, how it seems to spread like wildfire on planes and on cruise ships; all of this, she says, Prather should know. She studies aerosols -- particles so tiny they float freely through the air, traveling feet or even miles. She runs a large, government-funded research center at the University of California San Diego to study how viruses and other things that come out of the ocean float through the air.

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Aerosols, she writes, “can accumulate, remain infectious in indoor air for hours, and be easily inhaled deeply into the lungs.”
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“I have to say something because this could actually protect people,” she says. What airborne transmission means, she says, is that 6 feet is not far enough to stand apart. It also means we should probably be wearing masks a lot more often.
...
She wears hers inside and outside, especially if she’s walking outdoors in a place where she can see other people. She tells people to imagine how far they can smell cigarette smoke or a barbecue. That’s how far aerosols can travel between you and another person.

More detail in the article.   ~z
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treeswarper
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PostFri May 29, 2020 7:50 pm 
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Really?   Some of us have more sensitive smellers than others.  I can smell somebody smoking from quite a distance.  I'd think it would be a case of odor and not aerosol? 

NPR had an expert who said that there have been no cases from people playing rugby outdoors.  She intimated that the warm and dry outdoor air was not favorable to the spread of Covid. 

The example of a super spreading habitat was a meat packing plant where it is chilly, damp, and people are having to yell to communicate because of the noise.

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zephyr
aka friendly hiker



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aka friendly hiker
PostFri May 29, 2020 9:47 pm 
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treeswarper wrote:
I'd think it would be a case of odor and not aerosol?

Did you read the article t.w.?  It's pretty eye-opening.  A quick read. 

She studies aerosols -- particles so tiny they float freely through the air, traveling feet or even miles...

In a perspective article for the journal Science, Prather clearly lays out the evidence for aerosol transmission and explains what people need to do to protect themselves. ...

Aerosols are measured in microns, or one one-millionth of a meter. A human red blood cell is about 5 microns in size. These particles are so small that the moisture from a cough or sneeze evaporates while they’re still in the air. They float on air currents. It takes them hours to settle.

Aerosols, she writes, “can accumulate, remain infectious in indoor air for hours, and be easily inhaled deeply into the lungs.”


I think we'll be seeing more of this discussion down the road.  I hope she's wrong.  But it's something to consider for now.    I doubt that people can do more than six feet of social distancing.  Many can't or won't do even that much. 

We do know already that it takes a certain amount of the virus to give us the infection.  I think the latest number is 1000 particles which can be taken in over a period of time.  There's still much about this I am not quite clear on.  Like this quota of particles--wouldn't some of them "expire" over time?  So one would have this ongoing collection of particles and as long as they stay below the 1000 mark, then you're good? 

~z
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treeswarper
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PostSat May 30, 2020 8:15 am 
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I did read it and the non-sciency part of my brain finds it hard to believe.  Note that I mean BELIEVE not FACTS.

But, shouldn't we all be really sick by now?  Shouldn't this area be wiped out since I only see one person wearing a mask whilst outdoors?  I don't think this is something to worry about unless you walk where there are crowds of people sharing your route.

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Malachai Constant
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PostSat May 30, 2020 8:32 am 
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Smelling a fart might be a better test tongue.gif

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"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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ale_capone
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PostSat May 30, 2020 9:18 am 
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Seen this in an elevator in seattle yesterday.

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zephyr
aka friendly hiker



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aka friendly hiker
PostSat May 30, 2020 11:14 am 
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treeswarper wrote:
But, shouldn't we all be really sick by now?  Shouldn't this area be wiped out since I only see one person wearing a mask whilst outdoors?  I don't think this is something to worry about unless you walk where there are crowds of people sharing your route.

I agree.  I just thought it was worth considering and looking at.  These sort of findings change and or get clarified all the time.  If it is disproved or modified, I can edit or remove it.  ~z
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moonspots
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Happy Curmudgeon
PostSat May 30, 2020 11:43 am 
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ale_capone wrote:
Seen this in an elevator in seattle yesterday.


Dennis the menace?  lol.gif

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graywolf
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PostSat May 30, 2020 5:07 pm 
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Malachai Constant wrote:
Smelling a fart might be a better test tongue.gif

Actually, you may be right.

I remember hearing Michael Osterholm giving an example of aerosols.  He said when you walk through a department store and you smell the perfume counter, even though it is a number of aisles away, you are smelling the aerosols.

Here's a quote from his interview with Peter Attia on March 31: "The second thing is next time you’re in a shopping center and you are in a department store and you’re three aisles away from the perfume section but you can still smell it… that’s an aerosol. "

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Anne Elk
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BrontosaurusTheorist
PostSat May 30, 2020 5:38 pm 
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This is one of the more useful articles I've seen in recent weeks, discussing transmissibility based on droplet size, environment, and so forth. Seems clear that a mask of any kind is advantageous in certain environments, with the chances of becoming sick based on degree of exposure.

It's not whether you were exposed to the virus. It's how much.

From the article:
For SARS, also a coronavirus, the estimated infective dose is just a few hundred particles. For MERS, the infective dose is much higher, on the order of thousands of particles.  The new coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, is more similar to the SARS virus and, therefore, the infectious dose may be hundreds of particles, Dr. Rasmussen said. But the virus has a habit of defying predictions.  Generally, people who harbor high levels of pathogens — whether from influenza, H.I.V. or SARS — tend to have more severe symptoms and are more likely to pass on the pathogens to others.

But in the case of the new coronavirus, people who have no symptoms seem to have viral loads — that is, the amount of virus in their bodies — just as high as those who are seriously ill, according to some studies. And coronavirus patients are most infectious two to three days before symptoms begin, less so after the illness really hits.

Some people are generous transmitters of the coronavirus; others are stingy. So-called super-spreaders seem to be particularly gifted in transmitting it, although it’s unclear whether that’s because of their biology or their behavior.


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graywolf
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PostSat May 30, 2020 6:03 pm 
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Very good article, thanks for sharing it.

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