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jinx'sboy
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PostThu Jul 23, 2020 5:41 pm 
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Inslee announces a roll-back of rules governing bars/restaurants, weddings/funerals, recreation and fitness centers, beginning July 30.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/coronavirus-inslee-announces-rollbacks-rules-restaurants-bars-more/XIDPHMLVOJAAREQ5YCL75367PU/

I suspect this might do in some of the businesses that just opened 6 weeks ago.
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Kascadia
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PostThu Jul 23, 2020 6:51 pm 
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The leading candidates for a Cov2 vaccine are not traditional live/inactivated virus/protein vaccines, they are RNA vaccines (a new vaccine technology).  There is no protein/virus production step in this technology, the appropriate RNA sequence is synthesized and in several cases, at least, delivered by a lipid vesicle (there are also candidates using an adenovirus vector/DNA*).  The RNA sequence is a template for a segment of the "spike protein" which is the docking protein for the virus to the cell (binds to the ACE-2 receptor, found on multiple cell types in the body = potential for a multitude of effects beyond respiratory involvement).  This spike protein is well known to be immunogenic, it is the basis for the serological assay used for detecting antibodies in the blood.  The cell, itself, manufactures the spike protein sequence from the RNA template and expresses it on the cell surface for immune recognition.  There's a lot of people in the field/industry that are not getting adequate rest these days. . . Anyway, here's some links that might be useful/informative relative to the RNA vaccines (and the Oxford/AZ adenovirus vaccine below):

https://pfe-pfizercom-d8-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/PFIZER-MRNA_Vaccine-COVID_Infographic_final_square.png

https://www.phgfoundation.org/briefing/rna-vaccines

And a link to the Moderna website with a timeline to give a sense of how they are moving forward (and also lots of other info if you shop around):

https://www.modernatx.com/modernas-work-potential-vaccine-against-covid-19?utm_source=homepage&utm_medium=slider&utm_campaign=covid

*And here is an interview with Lancet editior/Robert Horton about Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine candidate with some vaccine questions answered:
https://episodes.buzzsprout.com/2deezvynogcyh5snee6a0wgbtmiv?

*And an article about the "spotty" history of adenovirus vector vaccines with some info specific to the current Covid candidate towards the end of the article:

https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/vaccines/Adenoviral-vectors-new-COVID-19/98/i19

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RichP
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PostSat Jul 25, 2020 9:55 am 
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Did the ultra popular Cape Alava/Sand Point Loop this week and was pleasantly surprised that almost everybody was masked up on the narrow boardwalks. Always a couple who put their hand on their noses and call it good upon passing though.
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Cyclopath
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PostSat Jul 25, 2020 10:12 am 
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California woman allegedly pees on floor of Verizon store after being asked to wear a mask

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/California-woman-pees-Verizon-store-no-mask-15423242.php

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Anne Elk
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PostSat Jul 25, 2020 2:22 pm 
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Kascadia wrote:
The leading candidates for a Cov2 vaccine are not traditional live/inactivated virus/protein vaccines, they are RNA vaccines (a new vaccine technology).   

What I gather from a brief look at all the links you provided (except the podcast) and a full read of the last link, is that eventually we're going to be the largest ever test pool for a very unproven technology.

Member arginine seems more qualified to opine on this stuff, but I have a bit of amateur knowledge from readings going back to when I invested (and lost big) in adenovirus vector technology (the now defunct Targeted Genetics). They weren't working on vaccines, but using the adenovirus delivery packets for correcting a gene flaw which causes cystic fibrosis.   I think I might prefer to keep wearing my mask and waiting for the conventional methods to deliver a vax thru the tried and true methods.  Just my skeptical 2 cents.

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Kascadia
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PostSat Jul 25, 2020 4:56 pm 
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Anne Elk wrote:
This is something I've been wondering about myself, since normally it takes a minimum amt of time (like 1.5 years) and sometimes longer, to come up with an effective vaccine. How can researchers speed up such a process?  I get that there might be certain bureaucratic inefficiencies that could be eliminated to speed things up, but how can you speed up a culturing process (ie, making things grow faster).  Makes me wonder about shortcuts the vaccine developers might be taking that will lead to problems.

This was the question being addressed.  It had not been answered relative to the leading (in terms of place in "pipeline") candidates.

Lancet published an article earlier this week about the Oxford/AstraZeneca candidate which was getting a lot of "promising press", particularly in regards to generating both B- and T-cell responses.  As it is an adenovirus/DNA vaccine (vs the RNA vaccines which are hot on its heels), I included the link to the article about the history of adenovirus vaccines, because they have a history. . . The audio is with the editor of Lancet, it has vaccine info in it too.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/07/20/893211400/early-oxford-astrazeneca-coronavirus-vaccine-data-encouraging-scientists-say

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Man, stretch thy reason hither, so thou mayest comprehend these things. Johannes Kepler
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Randito
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PostSat Jul 25, 2020 5:02 pm 
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Vaccine development and manufacturing is difficult and needs to be done with care,  as the Cutter Incident illustrates
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Anne Elk
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PostSat Jul 25, 2020 6:43 pm 
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Very relevant and interesting book review link, Randito.  Key point:
Quote:
...`the federal government, through its vaccine regulatory agency... was in the best position to avoid the Cutter tragedy'. Three larger companies produced safe polio vaccines according to Salk's protocol for inactivating the virus...The lack of experience and expertise at Cutter Laboratories, undetected by the inspectors, caused the disaster ...`ironically, the Cutter incident—by creating the perception among scientists and the public that Salk's vaccine was dangerous —led in part to the development of a polio vaccine that was more dangerous'.

Kascadia wrote:
Anne Elk wrote:
This is something I've been wondering about myself, since normally it takes a minimum amt of time (like 1.5 years) and sometimes longer, to come up with an effective vaccine. How can researchers speed up such a process?  I get that there might be certain bureaucratic inefficiencies that could be eliminated to speed things up, but how can you speed up a culturing process (ie, making things grow faster).  Makes me wonder about shortcuts the vaccine developers might be taking that will lead to problems.

This was the question being addressed.  It had not been answered relative to the leading (in terms of place in "pipeline") candidates.

Lancet published an article earlier this week about the Oxford/AstraZeneca candidate which was getting a lot of "promising press", particularly in regards to generating both B- and T-cell responses.  As it is an adenovirus/DNA vaccine (vs the RNA vaccines which are hot on its heels)

I get that the DNA/RNA vaccine processes are speedier to develop, as one of those articles explains, but the info in the NPR article you linked to in your last post provides additional concerning details, ie,
Quote:
The researchers said it's encouraging that they didn't find any serious adverse reactions, but they cautioned more research is needed to understand rarer reactions to the vaccine, which may not appear in 1,000 people but could turn up once the vaccine is given to millions of Americans  ... There are 24 coronavirus vaccine candidates currently in clinical trial ... An additional 142 vaccine candidates are in preclinical studies.

I can appreciate that at some point there's going to be a huge demand for quantity output, but over 160 candidates in various stages of development?  Sounds like icebergs ahead for the ship of R&D, if the Cutter incident serves as a cautionary tale.  It might be that the "tried and true" older but slower de-activated virus method might be the best of all.  We're such a "hurry up I want it NOW" culture these days.

I'll probably wait and say, "You first!" with this new stuff.  hockeygrin.gif

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Kascadia
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PostSat Jul 25, 2020 7:04 pm 
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Of course, in all objectivity, the summary concludes with this:

"The Cutter incident had an ambivalent legacy. On the one hand, it led to 1) the effective federal regulation of vaccines, which today enjoy a record of safety `unmatched by any other medical product'. On the other hand, 2) the court ruling that Cutter was liable to pay compensation to those damaged by its polio vaccine—even though it was not found to be negligent in its production—opened the floodgates to a wave of litigation. As a result, `vaccines were among the first medical products almost eliminated by lawsuits'. Indeed, the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program was introduced in 1986 to protect vaccine manufacturers from litigation on a scale that threatened the continuing production of vaccines. Still, many companies have opted out of this low-profit, high-risk field, leaving only a handful of firms to meet a growing demand (resulting in recent shortages of flu and other vaccines).

The contemporary climate of risk aversion and predatory litigation deters the introduction of new vaccines and discourages innovation in a field which boasts some of the most impressive achievements of modern medicine. To protect vaccine development—and ultimately public health —Offit proposes that the option of suing vaccine manufacturers should be stopped and that compensation should only be available through the official programme."
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I chose not to respond to your vaccine "issues", it's a different topic and it's your choice.

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It is as though I had read a divine text, written into the world itself, not with letters but rather with essential objects, saying:
Man, stretch thy reason hither, so thou mayest comprehend these things. Johannes Kepler
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Cyclopath
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PostSat Jul 25, 2020 7:20 pm 
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Anne Elk wrote:
It might be that the "tried and true" older but slower de-activated virus method might be the best of all.  We're such a "hurry up I want it NOW" culture these days.

The sooner we have a vaccine, the fewer people die unnecessarily from this virus.
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Anne Elk
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PostSat Jul 25, 2020 8:00 pm 
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Kascadia wrote:
I chose not to respond to your vaccine "issues", it's a different topic and it's your choice.

Well that's ultimately not a debatable point as we've discovered in this thread and others.  I don't have an issue with vaccines so much as the politics and greed of the modern medical/industrial complex.

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treeswarper
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PostSat Jul 25, 2020 8:02 pm 
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Meanwhile, in Brewster, county says it is good, state disagrees.

Gebbers brings a couple of school bus loads of workers to the Omak Walmart every week.

Gebbers Farms

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What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Get Out and Go
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PostWed Jul 29, 2020 12:47 pm 
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As much as I don't like to pigeon-hole/label people, I've certainly witnessed a lot of these behaviors.  rolleyes.gif

"A Field Guide to the Pandemic Deniers"    https://www.salon.com/2020/07/26/a-field-guide-to-the-pandemic-deniers/

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cdestroyer
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PostWed Jul 29, 2020 3:22 pm 
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this county , powell, in montana has finally gotten its first covid19 patient. contact with out of county people. we all knew it was gonna happen sooner or later
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Ski
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PostWed Jul 29, 2020 3:56 pm 
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Get Out and Go wrote:
As much as I don't like to pigeon-hole/label people, I've certainly witnessed a lot of these behaviors.  rolleyes.gif

"A Field Guide to the Pandemic Deniers"    https://www.salon.com/2020/07/26/a-field-guide-to-the-pandemic-deniers/

^ if that weren't so tragically true, I'd say that post belonged in the "humor" thread. up.gif

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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