Forum Index > Full Moon Saloon > To your/our health (Covid-19 thread)
Previous :: Next Topic  
Author Message
zephyr
aka friendly hiker



Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 2156 | TRs
Location: West Seattle
zephyr
  Top

aka friendly hiker
PostThu Mar 26, 2020 10:07 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
neek wrote:
MtnGoat posted that a few pages back

Thanks for letting me know.  I don't see everything on here.  wink.gif       

neek wrote:
Not sure if leaving food outside would work too well around here, but I'm setting up the garage as a quarantine area.

I know.  Right?    Man, why didn't we have this sort of information a month or more ago.  Geez Louise.   Now I am wondering what did I bring in here?   huh.gif

~z
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
neek
Member
Member


Joined: 12 Sep 2011
Posts: 1042 | TRs
Location: Seattle, WA
neek
  Top

Member
PostThu Mar 26, 2020 10:21 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
xman_reborn wrote:
I have friends across the country saying that this is insane. Is it only is happening in Western Washington? Are we complete idiots here? I think we are. I'm embarrassed.

Stores operate at close to capacity for efficiency reasons (Costco in particular has always been a zoo).  Then throughput slows down because of extra precautions.  People line up faster than they can be serviced.  Study queuing theory.  Certainly there was a rush early on, but I imagine by now most people are like me and going shopping way less often than before this all hit.  Understanding the situation at the checkout line is important for understanding what could happen when healthcare systems reach capacity, although I do think the media is highlighting some of the worst cases.

zephyr wrote:
Now I am wondering what did I bring in here?

Lots of stuff I got last week went straight into the freezer.  Doh.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
BigBrunyon
Member
Member


Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 737 | TRs
Location: the fitness gyms!!
BigBrunyon
  Top

Member
PostFri Mar 27, 2020 12:40 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Look, it's just one of those things. Is what it is.

--------------
I ALWAYS camp at the upper lake!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist



Joined: 07 Sep 2018
Posts: 884 | TRs
Location: Seattle
Anne Elk
  Top

BrontosaurusTheorist
PostFri Mar 27, 2020 1:37 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
xman reborn wrote:
Why are people STILL lining up at Costco? Is there a national shortage for groceries?

When I was at the Shoreline Costco over a week ago, the reason they were lining up outside is that the store was only letting a certain # of people in at once, to prevent overcrowding.  It created a less-than-optional situation outside, but I suppose that's better than crowding inside; and the carts help peeps keep their distance (tho' not 6 feet).  I still wore a mask while in there, and in line.

--------------
"There are yahoos out there.  It’s why we can’t have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
altasnob
Member
Member


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 87 | TRs
Location: Tacoma
altasnob
  Top

Member
PostFri Mar 27, 2020 8:40 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Cyclopath wrote:
MtnGoat wrote:
Tell me again why we are not following the standard procedure for all previous issues like this, which is trace the social chains and isolate only those in the contact circles, and so on?

Because we have 80,000 known cases.  What you're suggesting could have worked early on, but at that point official policy was that "you can go to work" if you have COVID-19, and that it will "miraculously" disappear when it gets warm.  And now here we are.

This has been the most frusterating thing for me. I get that US positive cases are now so high that tracing contacts and quarantining has become futile. But the whole idea of these lock downs is to slow the rate of infection to a point the hospitals can handle the surge. When the rate of infection slows, the lock down will be lifted but the virus will still be prevalent, and people will still be infected. We need to start preparing now to minimize the spread of the virus so we don't need to continue the lock down for the next two years. South Korea is a functioning society despite the virus because they trace contacts and quarantine infected. They use cell phone data and credit card transactions to track and contact people that may have been exposed, and then require them to come in for a test. In the US, our cell phone data can already be used by private companies to track our location. If we are concerned about constitutional privacy concerns, you could set up an opt in system where people voluntarily waive their privacy rights so the government can use their cell phone data and credit card transactions to inform them if they were in the same room with someone COVID-19 positive (like South Korea). Singapore goes one step farther and has a web site where virus positive people's name, address, work address, and every where they have been for the last month is available to the public so that they know if they might have been exposed. This might not work in the US because of HIPAA but I for one would gladly waive my privacy rights for a temporary period in order to prevent having to be locked down for the next two years. Japan has conducted few tests and no attempt to trace and isolate yet has low numbers. Lots of speculation that Japan's numbers are flawed but one major difference between them and us is they wear masks in public (like all the Asian countries who have been able to get a grip on this). There should be a law making mask wearing mandatory in the US (until the situation is under control). I assume I am going to get a bunch of responses saying I rather die than give up my civil liberties. But this is a time of crisis our country hasn't faced in 100 years (or ever). We are in this mess for the next two years and are going to watch our economy crumble while South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, Tawain, and China go about business as normal and laugh at our ineptitude.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
zephyr
aka friendly hiker



Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 2156 | TRs
Location: West Seattle
zephyr
  Top

aka friendly hiker
PostFri Mar 27, 2020 9:36 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
altasnob wrote:
This has been the most frusterating thing for me. I get that US positive cases are now so high that tracing contacts and quarantining has become futile. But the whole idea of these lock downs is to slow the rate of infection to a point the hospitals can handle the surge.

...
altasnob wrote:
We are in this mess for the next two years and are going to watch our economy crumble while South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, Tawain, and China go about business as normal and laugh at our ineptitude.

This is great content to consider.  I've thinking about these issues too. 

If I could ask you to please break it up in paragraphs for easier reading if would be most helpful to those of us with not as robust vision.  I tend to get lost in large swaths of sentences these days.  dizzy.gif   Thanks.  ~z
.
.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
CC
cascade curmudgeon



Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 533 | TRs

CC
  Top

cascade curmudgeon
PostFri Mar 27, 2020 10:00 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
From UW:

https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections

Yeah, yeah, I know "we don't want no stinkin models  ...falsify....yada yada."

--------------
No matter how cynical you become, it's not enough to keep up.  Jane Wagner/Lily Tomlin
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Jumble Jowls
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 185 | TRs
Location: now here
Jumble Jowls
  Top

Member
PostFri Mar 27, 2020 10:25 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
The Swedes have the right idea:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-bars/the-last-drink-in-europe-swedish-bars-stay-open-despite-coronavirus-idUSKBN21E2QO?il=0
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist



Joined: 07 Sep 2018
Posts: 884 | TRs
Location: Seattle
Anne Elk
  Top

BrontosaurusTheorist
PostFri Mar 27, 2020 10:34 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Altasnob wrote:
I assume I am going to get a bunch of responses saying I rather die than give up my civil liberties.

The underlying problem remains the need (and our continued inability) to test widely because of the transmissibility of the virus long before the infected person shows symptoms. Our containment failure is due an inexplicable refusal to use the WHO test when it was offered, and then compounded by our own ineptitude, both technical and bureaucratic:

How testing failures allowed coronavirus to sweep the US

Quote:
neither the CDC nor the coronavirus task force chaired by Vice President Mike Pence would say who made the decision to forgo the WHO test and instead begin a protracted process of producing an American test, one that got delayed by manufacturing problems, possible lab contamination and logistical delays.

“Please provide an explanation for why the Covid-19 diagnostic test approved by the World Health Organization was not used,” Sen. Patty Murray, the ranking Democrat on the Senate health committee, who represents the hard-hit state of Washington, asked in a 3˝-page letter on the testing fiasco to Pence, Health Secretary Alex Azar, CDC director Robert Redfield, and Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Stephen Hahn.

So far, none has been provided.

This New Yorker article provides the granular details re what went on at the CDC with our own testing screwups:

What went wrong with coronavirus testing in the US

The solution still seems to be universal testing, but now that the cat is out of the bag, it's not clear we could ever produce the amt of tests needed now.

--------------
"There are yahoos out there.  It’s why we can’t have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Bosterson
Member
Member


Joined: 12 Sep 2019
Posts: 76 | TRs
Location: Portland
Bosterson
  Top

Member
PostFri Mar 27, 2020 10:35 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
zephyr wrote:
Here's a video on shopping and cleaning groceries.

This is pretty intense. My read is this level of anxiety is not warranted for the general public, especially those who are not at high risk of severe complications.

CDC: Can the virus be spread through food, including refrigerated or frozen?

Quote:
Coronaviruses are generally thought to be spread from person-to-person through respiratory droplets. Currently there is no evidence to support transmission of COVID-19 associated with food. Before preparing or eating food it is important to always wash your hands with soap and water for 20 seconds for general food safety. Throughout the day wash your hands after blowing your nose, coughing or sneezing, or going to the bathroom.

It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes, but this is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads.

In general, because of poor survivability of these coronaviruses on surfaces, there is likely very low risk of spread from food products or packaging that are shipped over a period of days or weeks at ambient, refrigerated, or frozen temperatures.

NYT article about grocery shopping

Quote:
The majority of transmission of coronavirus is likely from close contact with an infected person. Viral particles do not survive well on paper or cardboard surfaces. And while the virus lasts longer on hard surfaces, contamination from jars and plastic containers is not a big risk. If it makes you feel better, Dr. Amler said, give them a quick wipe as you unpack.

Dr. Winetsky agreed that the risk of contamination from jars, cans or other containers “is infinitesimally small” and that you have to balance risk with anxiety. “I would not do this myself or really recommend it to other people,” he said. “This level of anxiety about sanitation can be harmful in and of itself.”


--------------
We must move forward, not backward; upward, not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
CC
cascade curmudgeon



Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 533 | TRs

CC
  Top

cascade curmudgeon
PostFri Mar 27, 2020 10:52 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Jumble Jowls wrote:
The Swedes have the right idea:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-bars/the-last-drink-in-europe-swedish-bars-stay-open-despite-coronavirus-idUSKBN21E2QO?il=0

https://news.yahoo.com/sweden-under-fire-relaxed-coronavirus-134027070.html

--------------
No matter how cynical you become, it's not enough to keep up.  Jane Wagner/Lily Tomlin
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11697 | TRs
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
  Top

Member
PostFri Mar 27, 2020 10:55 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
CC wrote:
From UW:

https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections

Yeah, yeah, I know "we don't want no stinkin models  ...falsify....yada yada."

yeah, why would anyone want valid models. It's crazy. rolleyes.gif

--------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
zephyr
aka friendly hiker



Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 2156 | TRs
Location: West Seattle
zephyr
  Top

aka friendly hiker
PostFri Mar 27, 2020 11:13 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Bosterson wrote:
zephyr wrote:
Here's a video on shopping and cleaning groceries.

This is pretty intense. My read is this level of anxiety is not warranted for the general public, especially those who are not at high risk of severe complications.


Okay.  If you think it's going overboard.  I can pull it.  I must admit it alarmed me considerably.  But I had been doing some of those practices already--wiping down newly-arrived groceries for example.

Thanks,  ~z
.
.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Damian
Member
Member


Joined: 18 Dec 2001
Posts: 3151 | TRs

Damian
  Top

Member
PostFri Mar 27, 2020 11:56 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
It is not going overboard for the general public if the intent is to prevent transmission and to reduce the death rate of the many who are indeed at risk. As well as reducing the risk of overloading hospitals.  The ramifications far exceed serious illness or death of the general public.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11697 | TRs
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
  Top

Member
PostFri Mar 27, 2020 12:01 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
It seems to me this episode presents an opportunity to reevaluate so much of what has become common wisdom concerning urbanization, housing distancing, private vehicles, walls, borders, prepping, and so much more.

--------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
  Display:     All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Forum Index > Full Moon Saloon > To your/our health (Covid-19 thread)
  Happy Birthday weatherman, Lotus54!
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
   Use Disclaimer Powered by phpBB Privacy Policy