Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > New drone rules
Previous :: Next Topic  
Author Message
Schroder
Member
Member


Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 5733 | TRs
Location: on the beach
Schroder
  Top

Member
PostTue Mar 03, 2020 5:35 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I've completely changed my mind about drones since I've seen how useful they can be in Search and Rescue.  A group of drones flown by hobbyists can blanket a mountain and get very high resolution photos - something the SAR groups will never be able to achieve with only one in the air.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Randito
Snarky Member



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 7303 | TRs
Location: Bellevue at the moment.
Randito
  Top

Snarky Member
PostTue Mar 03, 2020 6:03 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Schroder wrote:
I've completely changed my mind about drones since I've seen how useful they can be in Search and Rescue.  A group of drones flown by hobbyists can blanket a mountain and get very high resolution photos - something the SAR groups will never be able to achieve with only one in the air.

I got no problem with the purposeful use of drones to protect human life. 

It's their use in areas posted with "no drone zone" signs for the personal entertainment of the operator and to the determent of other users that I don't appreciate.   e.g. I was at Silver Falls State Park in Oregon last June and a drone operator was buzzing his drone around the one of the waterfalls.   And of course the guy lost control of the drone and it crashed and then he climbed down steep and wet rocks to retrieve it -- other park visitors were at first annoyed by the buzzing and distraction and then transfixed with morbid fascination watching him climb down and up a cliff above a rushing river to retrieve his toy.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((>



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 11031 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((>
PostTue Mar 03, 2020 7:00 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Schroder wrote:
"...how useful they can be in Search and Rescue..."

Hey, Schroder, I'm all for it there, except for the "hobbyist" part.
WDFW is using drones to do counts on birds down near Ridgefield, wolves over in Ferry County, and other lands management and wildlife management agencies have found them to be invaluable in gathering data.
I'm sure they have a legitimate place in SAR operations.

However, as Randy notes above, and as the list I posted on the previous page clearly shows, in the hands of amateurs they've proven themselves to be a nuisance.

Let the "hobbyists" find another hobby that doesn't annoy other people in public places, intrude on peoples' privacy in their own back yards, interfere with emergency operations, harass wildlife in National Parks, or damage historic structures, to name just a few of the idiotic consequences we've seen when these things are in the hands of morons.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Sore Feet
Random Quippy Bit



Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 6219 | TRs
Location: I'm on a boat
Sore Feet
  Top

Random Quippy Bit
PostTue Mar 03, 2020 7:20 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
RandyHiker wrote:
It's their use in areas posted with "no drone zone" signs for the personal entertainment of the operator and to the determent of other users that I don't appreciate.

I have a feeling the only people who wouldn't actually mind those cases are the idiots who are breaking the rules and doing the flying there.  I've called out numerous people who post videos they've shot in wilderness areas with a drone, and like clockwork, they always get SUPER defensive about it and claim they're being attacked.  In the end the question remains, how to effectively enforce those no-fly zones to curtail that sort of behavior while not affecting legal or legitimate use (SAR, etc) where it's allowed.  And unfortunately the answer is the technology just isn't quite there to do it the way it needs to be done.

Ski wrote:
Let the "hobbyists" find another hobby that doesn't annoy other people in public places, intrude on peoples' privacy in their own back yards, interfere with emergency operations, harass wildlife in National Parks, or damage historic structures, to name just a few of the idiotic consequences we've seen when these things are in the hands of morons.

Okay, so can the hobbyists who rip up trails with their ATVs and Motorbikes, or go shooting in the woods near popular hiking corridors, or go off-roading across the desert playa likewise take their activities elsewhere too then?  These things in the hands of morons, as you put it, are no more destructive than any other particular object that one might encounter in the hands of morons.  There are certainly many legitimate reasons that drone use need to be restricted, but...

Quote:

in the hands of amateurs they've proven themselves to be a nuisance.

...this is, absolute best case scenario, a mountain-sized straw man argument.

--------------
Bryan Swan
Pictures - http://www.flickr.com/photos/bryanswan
Waterfalls - www.waterfallsnorthwest.com
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((>



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 11031 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((>
PostTue Mar 03, 2020 7:57 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
yeah... all of those news articles on all those websites I posted in that list on the previous page were all "straw men".

lol.gif

thanks for the laugh!  lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12000 | TRs
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
  Top

Member
PostWed Mar 04, 2020 10:07 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
RandyHiker wrote:
Boo hoo.   All the folks going through airport security since 9/11/2001 are also inconvienenced and are equally innocent of malicious acts.

They're being inconvenienced on the basis of harm which has actually occurred.

There is no record of any event of any kind like this, or even close, or even harming a manned aircraft, with recreational RC flyers using standard non drone non autopilot aircraft.

--------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12000 | TRs
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
  Top

Member
PostWed Mar 04, 2020 10:08 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
RandyHiker wrote:
I got no problem with the purposeful use of drones to protect human life. 

It's their use in areas posted with "no drone zone" signs for the personal entertainment of the operator and to the determent of other users that I don't appreciate.   e.g. I was at Silver Falls State Park in Oregon last June and a drone operator was buzzing his drone around the one of the waterfalls.   And of course the guy lost control of the drone and it crashed and then he climbed down steep and wet rocks to retrieve it -- other park visitors were at first annoyed by the buzzing and distraction and then transfixed with morbid fascination watching him climb down and up a cliff above a rushing river to retrieve his toy.

Is your distaste for this, which I share by the way, part of your seeming decision to refuse to make distinctions between this technology and classic RC platforms?

--------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Randito
Snarky Member



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 7303 | TRs
Location: Bellevue at the moment.
Randito
  Top

Snarky Member
PostWed Mar 04, 2020 10:10 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
MtnGoat wrote:
RandyHiker wrote:
Boo hoo.   All the folks going through airport security since 9/11/2001 are also inconvienenced and are equally innocent of malicious acts.

They're being inconvenienced on the basis of harm which has actually occurred.

There is no record of any event of any kind like this, or even close, or even harming a manned aircraft, with recreational RC flyers using standard non drone non autopilot aircraft.

So you propose waiting until hundreds or thousands of innocent people are killed so you aren't inconvenienced in pursuing your hobby.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12000 | TRs
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
  Top

Member
PostWed Mar 04, 2020 10:27 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
It's interesting that of all the critiques of multirotor aircraft contain issues I agree with, they are all examples of the capabilities created by the new technology which underlies them.

I knew the minute I saw my first multirotor over a decade ago that these things possessed the ability to severely impact and perhaps wipe out classic RC flying because people would not recognize the differences or be willing to make distinctions between them, in spite of the demonstrable differences... especially in capabilities.

Standard RC aircraft have no more capabilities than they ever did, for all that time...30-50 years minimum (depending upon how granular we wish to get on control capabilities).

And in all that time, few to no complaints or events like the ones justifiably noted above. If classic RC aircraft are a problem, why weren't people upset they were looking in windows, flying in wilderness, buzzing people at parks, et etc?

Answer: It is not, and never has been, the classic platforms. They cannot do what causes the most of the problems reported, and the folks flying them go through a learning curve inherent to the sport which prevents the rest.

I agree...regulate new tech with new capabilites which result in the problems. Leave old tech which has a sterling safety record and a record as long of few to no complaints like the ones above, to minimum regulation.

Light regulation as already existed, on technology which is more reliable now but unchanged in basic function, and which is proven out by a long and exceptional safety record for 50 years.

You don't need additional regulation on what is already safe, proven safe, and does not even have the capability to cause many of the issues being complained about.

--------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12000 | TRs
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
  Top

Member
PostWed Mar 04, 2020 10:29 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
RandyHiker wrote:
So you propose waiting until hundreds or thousands of innocent people are killed so you aren't inconvenienced in pursuing your hobby.

Yes, just like every other risk which isn't for laws which cannot stop that which they claim to stop. No one who would commit those crimes will be inhibited in the least by them. All it does is harm innocent recreationists. You can build an aircraft out of foam from Home Depot in your garage and make a very, very good one capable of all kinds of mayhem. IF the regulation at least had some meaning as it applies to people intent on doing harm, there would be some kind of argument here.

Are you actually going to argue for regulation of anything with a risk, including things where no risk has ever become real?

And we're not talking inconvenienced, we're talking ended. For no good reason and with a sterling safety record.

--------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Chief Joseph
Member
Member


Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 5357 | TRs
Location: What Verlot Forgot.
Chief Joseph
  Top

Member
PostWed Mar 04, 2020 11:23 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I have only one thing to say about Drones....I DON'T LIKE THEM!!!!! huh.gif  huh.gif  huh.gif  huh.gif

--------------
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
NikonHiker
Member
Member


Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 608 | TRs
Location: Fort Drum, NY
NikonHiker
  Top

Member
PostWed Mar 04, 2020 11:35 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Anecdotally kites are far more of a threat than drones.


At least, I've actually hit a kite before.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Randito
Snarky Member



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 7303 | TRs
Location: Bellevue at the moment.
Randito
  Top

Snarky Member
PostWed Mar 04, 2020 12:29 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
MtnGoat wrote:
RandyHiker wrote:
So you propose waiting until hundreds or thousands of innocent people are killed so you aren't inconvenienced in pursuing your hobby.

Yes, just like every other risk which isn't for laws which cannot stop that which they claim to stop. No one who would commit those crimes will be inhibited in the least by them. All it does is harm innocent recreationists. You can build an aircraft out of foam from Home Depot in your garage and make a very, very good one capable of all kinds of mayhem. IF the regulation at least had some meaning as it applies to people intent on doing harm, there would be some kind of argument here.

Are you actually going to argue for regulation of anything with a risk, including things where no risk has ever become real?

And we're not talking inconvenienced, we're talking ended. For no good reason and with a sterling safety record.

Wait aren't you the same guy that recently posted a query about cheap GPS trackers for your model aircraft?  Pretty funny that you are now claiming that having to GPS track your toy would prevent you from playing with it.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12000 | TRs
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
  Top

Member
PostWed Mar 04, 2020 12:41 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
That wasn't for my hobby. It was for commercial use in testing a new, very small radar with respect to GPS truth location vs radar reported location. This is already covered by existing regulation and we are covered for commercial operation under pre existing regulation (which does not impact classic non commercial use.)

Further, even that use did not involve any link to the ground and did not require cell phone coverage. It was fly the GPS, download the track and compare time stamps to radar time stamps for location errors from the radar.

And more...the aircraft to be used was a heavy one meant for payload and not soaring, which requires minimum weight. So the comparison there doesn't work either.

--------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12000 | TRs
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
  Top

Member
PostWed Mar 04, 2020 12:43 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Chief Joseph wrote:
I have only one thing to say about Drones....I DON'T LIKE THEM!!!!! huh.gif  huh.gif  huh.gif  huh.gif

Word. The reaction to them combined with very poor pilot decisions are on the verge of destroying one of my favorite hobbies.

--------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
  Display:     All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > New drone rules
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
   Use Disclaimer Powered by phpBB Privacy Policy