[Roly Poly]

So…..has there been a change in the 12 person per group limit in wilderness areas? It seems that there are huge FB groups roaming the mountains. For instance this Saturday there is a group of 15 going to Lake Serene with 24 more “maybe going”. Don’t know if Lake Serene is in the wilderness but it’s an already busy destination.

[dixon]

I experienced the result of this a few years back on Mt Pugh. I showed up to the TH @ 7am to be greeted by a ~30 car traffic jam along that tiny single dirt road to the pull out. I later learned that there was a "Facebook Hike" organized that day.

[kiliki]

I think I wrote an email about groups to the USFS after taking a day off of work to hike to Melakwa Lake about 5 years ago. I would never do a trail like that on a weekend and was looking forward to a nice quiet hike. About a minute after I pulled up a school bus did too, stopped, and...50? 100? screaming kids spilled out. I mean SCREAMING. Boy did I hustle up the trail. It seems like if you want to have a large group size you should need a permit.

[neek]

Hey, maybe trailhead thieves will start following these groups, and solve two problems at once. Wishful thinking.

[Cyclopath]

Zuck bought USFS to get around the regs after the Grand Canyon thing. Group size limits no longer apply to Facebook parties.

[Randito]

The party size limits haven't changed in terms the CFR , but that doesn't mean the USFS has rangers out enforcing this regulation. Organizations like the Mountaineers used to organize outings and classes with hundreds of people. I recall a group of 150 Mountaineers marching past my tent pitched near Alta Vista on their way to crevasse rescue practice on the Nisqually. These days they may not be in a single organized group, but the Muir Snowfield often has a "conga line" feel to it. Until such time as the USFS/NPS starts administering permits for day hiking and limiting the total number of persons admitted to an area, I don't forsee there will be meaningful enforcement of this rule. I'm not particularly keen to see that sort of regimentation implemented to combat overcrowding.

[jaysway]

I hope this doesn't stray into politics, but the state of underfunding for the Forest Service is very sad. Especially consider skyrocketing usage. I hadn't heard about these Facebook organized events but I do not doubt that they are happening. I doubt the Forest Service could police that kind of stuff even if they wanted to.

[Roly Poly]

I get the impression that most people on those FB groups don’t even know about the 12 person group limit. And I think the Mountaineers do adhere to the 12 person limit for hikes? Maybe the field trips to practice ice ax arrest don’t? The large groups are not quiet. It’s not like they get to the destination and sit there in quiet awe and soak in the scenery. I must be an old curmudgeon. Seems like the reason people hike has really changed.

[uww]

I think the Mountaineers do have special permits for the big outings, but otherwise they usually seem to roll with 8 or less.

[Likes2Hike]

There will always be hiking newbies who prefer the company of others in the wilderness, and who may not yet be educated about, or choose to ignore, wilderness group size limitations. Why not post on FB to raise awareness about a proposed outing's excessive size, instead of lamenting the seeming lack of knowledge about it here? Many crave the "no one has been here before" feeling, when hiking in the wilderness by ourselves, or with a few other friends. As population continues to grow, this type of experience will continue to become more rare. Limiting outings when group size or trail's capacity might be exceeded on a particular day can never effectively be managed, unless others choose to respect limitations, and also have a backup plan when their chosen trailhead is full when they arrive.

[Randito]

[Schroder]

Lake Serene is not in a Wilderness Area. There are no party limits there.