Forum Index > Trail Talk > Washington State Lands Closed to Camping through April 30  Day use areas and trails remain open
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Bosterson
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PostWed Mar 25, 2020 1:30 pm 
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neek wrote:
The fact is, we now live in a world where a simple action that would previously be considered completely innocent can now kill someone. .... This is fairly direct consequences of conscious choices.

So when this over, will we start jailing people for not getting their flu shots?

There is a large disparity between going to Florida to rub shoulders on spring break and going for a drive into a rural area to get fresh air. Contending that getting gas is akin to killing someone is hyperbole, and hyperbole pollutes discourse. Lockdown and isolation until the vaccine is ready is an absurd proposition - that's 12-18 months away.

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MtnGoat
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PostWed Mar 25, 2020 1:33 pm 
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It doesn't stand up to evaluation of how risk is handled in saner times anyway. I posit that what will happen is once the curve is sufficiently flattened, the restrictions will be gradually lifted and the high risk folks will need to take precautions continuing forward for quite some time. There is little sense in locking everyone down once the peak has passed and the general risk in terms of care capacity begins to drop, or a vaccine is available.

For example, at some point the risk of driving somewhere will surpass the virus risk once again.

The zero risk actions in life are few to none, after all.

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MtnGoat
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PostWed Mar 25, 2020 2:11 pm 
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I wasn't aware of the end of the NWH prohibition on personal attacks. huh.gif

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BigBrunyon
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PostWed Mar 25, 2020 2:34 pm 
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MyFootHurts wrote:
Don nitrile gloves
Get out credit card
Swipe card
Place in plastic baggie for decon later
Pump gas
Doff gloves
Dispose in receptacle next to gas pump

That's how I've been doing it

Every time? How long you been doing this for?

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JimK
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PostWed Mar 25, 2020 2:44 pm 
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WA DNR lands closed to public recreation from March 26 - April 8.

DNR News

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MtnGoat
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PostWed Mar 25, 2020 3:08 pm 
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i've been doing the gas pump polka since the first case showed up in Klickitat Co. Now we're up to 6.

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MyFootHurts
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PostWed Mar 25, 2020 3:21 pm 
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BigBrunyon wrote:
Every time? How long you been doing this for?

Been doing it for about 2 weeks now.
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mb
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PostWed Mar 25, 2020 3:31 pm 
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Some people on this thread are asking "why, what's the risk".

That's a totally fair question.

Everything about this is probability. It's not like breathing a breath in noewheresville causes the whole town to drop dead.

Even breathing directly on someone may not hurt them.

But there's risks along the way.
* You get hurt somewhere en route.
* Or on your hike.
Now you've strained strained resources.

You do happen to transmit it to nowheresveille
* Guess what, they don't have health care.

You are encouraging others
* Yes, trip reports/social media do this.


There are hard questions: OK, so nowheresville will probably get it some day, why not now? How long will this last? Will people run out of money or go crazy before it does? Etc.

But right now the best answer we seem to have is to stay close to home limit everything.
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neek
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PostWed Mar 25, 2020 3:34 pm 
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Bosterson wrote:
Contending that getting gas is akin to killing someone is hyperbole, and hyperbole pollutes discourse

Not remotely what I said.  Where did I say "getting gas"?  I'd be frustrated with me too if I said that.  smile.gif  Some actions that had one consequence now can have different consequences.  Hard to argue with that.  You can see elsewhere that I'm supporting people getting out (and getting attacked for that too), right?  So many people just out looking for an argument, it seems.
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Jake Robinson
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PostWed Mar 25, 2020 3:46 pm 
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neek wrote:
So many people just out looking for an argument, it seems.

NWHikers Trail Talk in a nutshell wink.gif
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PostWed Mar 25, 2020 3:49 pm 
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WTH is with the personal attacks? down.gif

This bizarre shaming - or as Neek perfectly put it, inflated authority - has gone too far. I've heard many people demanding "what part of 'Stay Home Order' don't you understand?". Answer: I don't understand why people can't read beyond a title. It is the content that matters, not the title. Outside of the closed areas, there is no order prohibiting hiking. As it currently stands, exercise is encouraged to maintain physical and mental health. And yes, the latter is incredibly important.

Hiking can still be done smartly: Drive solo. Don't stop in rural towns. Maintain your distance from others on the trail. Avoid crowded places.

In times of uncertainty, people want control. But for many people, this has turned into a need to control other people, often to the point where they miss the bigger picture. Instead of splitting hairs with folks who are willing to make changes to hike smartly, focus on the real problem: the cavalier people who continue to congregate in large groups and ignore social distancing measures.
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fourteen410
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PostWed Mar 25, 2020 3:54 pm 
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mb wrote:
But there's risks along the way.
* You get hurt somewhere en route.
* Or on your hike.
Now you've strained strained resources.

This argument doesn't hold water. The same risk exists if you are driving to the grocery store, picking up a to go order from a restaurant, or getting a prescription at the pharmacy. You will never have zero risk in anything you do. Plus, you are far more likely to contract/transmit the virus doing the aforementioned things than if you are isolating yourself in the wilderness.
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PostWed Mar 25, 2020 3:54 pm 
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Wednesday March 25, 2020 16:51 PDT

WDFW NEWS RELEASE

WDFW closes recreational fishing statewide in wake of governor's order to 'Stay Home, Stay Healthy' in response to COVID-19


OLYMPIA The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) today announced its decision to temporarily close recreational fishing and shellfishing statewide in the wake of Washington Gov. Jay Inslee's order directing Washingtonians to stay home and stay healthy to limit the spread of coronavirus/COVID-19.

The closures will begin at midnight Wednesday, March 25 and last until at least 5 p.m. on April 8, 2020. WDFW will re-evaluate on April 6 whether the closure may need to be extended.

"This is not a decision we take lightly, but it's the right thing to do for the health and well-being of Washington's families," said WDFW Director Kelly Susewind. "Monday's extraordinary order for the residents of our state to stay home requires all of us to work together to ensure these measures have the intended effect."

Fishery managers have reported that some anglers have been seen crowding banks as concerns over coronavirus have continued.

"We've seen an uptick in outdoor recreation at some locations in recent weeks as people have looked for ways to get outside," said WDFW Fish Program Director Kelly Cunningham. "We've had reports of crowded boat ramps and busy fishing on some rivers, which runs counter to the governor's direction to stay home and practice social distancing."

In addition, many salmon and steelhead fisheries require regular monitoring under the Endangered Species Act (ESA), which includes conducting angler interviews at access sites surrounding the state's marine waters. The on-site, face-to-face nature of angler interviews puts people at potential risk of transmitting the coronavirus. Without such monitoring, these recreational fisheries must close to ensure ESA protections.

WDFW and other state agencies previously closed all of their water access sites, including boat launches, and other public lands where people may gather. Local and tribal governments are taking similar actions across Washington.

WDFW Enforcement officers remain on duty and will be enforcing these new closures.

The lowland lakes opening day for trout remains scheduled for April 25, but will be evaluated depending on whether the governor's "Stay Home, Stay Healthy" order might be further extended.

For the latest updates on WDFW's coronavirus response, please visit https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/covid-19-updates. Updates to openings and closures will be posted to that page. For the latest information on the statewide response to this pandemic, visit https://coronavirus.wa.gov/.

The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife is the state agency tasked with preserving, protecting, and perpetuating fish, wildlife, and ecosystems, while providing sustainable fishing, hunting, and other recreation opportunities.

-WDFW-

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PostWed Mar 25, 2020 4:05 pm 
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Ski wrote:
Correct.
Those closed areas include ALL lands managed by DNR and WDFW.

Right, but there is still plenty of USFS land open. I'm not arguing for or encouraging people to enter closed areas - that's an entirely separate discussion.
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Bosterson
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PostWed Mar 25, 2020 4:07 pm 
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neek wrote:
Bosterson wrote:
Contending that getting gas is akin to killing someone is hyperbole, and hyperbole pollutes discourse

Not remotely what I said.  Where did I say "getting gas"?  I'd be frustrated with me too if I said that.  smile.gif  Some actions that had one consequence now can have different consequences.  Hard to argue with that.  You can see elsewhere that I'm supporting people getting out (and getting attacked for that too), right?  So many people just out looking for an argument, it seems.

Wasn't my intention to "argue" with you.  smile.gif I had gone a little ways back up the thread and maybe missed something, so it's possible I conflated what you were saying with the other post by Treeswarper you referenced, which I thought was about people getting gas while traveling to or from hiking. Maybe I misread.

I certainly wouldn't disagree with you that there are new consequences to consider, just the "direct" aspect. Considering the US lacks the capability to actually test for COVID, the asymptomatic can't predict definite outcomes of their behavior. Thus, saying you are "definitely" killing someone is hyperbolic - who knows if you're infected, who knows if they're infected, who knows if either would become infected, symptomatic, etc. If that were true, then we "definitely" kill a lot more people if we go to the grocery store. At a certain point, living in 100% isolation isn't possible in this society. All I was saying was that the hyperbolic outrage (on all sides) is somewhat irrational and not very productive. In the current information vacuum of no one being tested, there's still a very reasonable middle ground to agree on: "COVID" parties (wtf?) and people going on spring break are obviously a bad idea. Saying you're directly killing other people if you leave your house is also a bit over the top. In between, everyone should stay home and read some books, and hopefully it'll be possible to escape out to some abandoned forest road every once in a while if you need to maintain your sanity. "2 to 3 weeks" is wishful thinking - society is likely to remain locked down for at least a few months, at which point some people going hiking alone in a remote area with minimal likelihood of impacting others is going to be small potatoes compared to all the people who lost their homes, went hungry, couldn't get or afford medical care, etc because they couldn't work, which is definitely going to happen as a result of the very necessary lockdown. Just seems like we should keep some perspective about where to expend our energy being concerned and upset.  agree.gif

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