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jinx'sboy
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PostWed May 06, 2020 12:03 am 
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MtnGoat wrote:
......blah blah blah ......I never stated it cannot, which shows your lack of understanding of what I actually argued. Before you complain about arguments you dislike and their incoherence, it would be better to pay attention to them so you can demonstrate the incoherence is not on the observers side.

I write what I intend to write and try to choose words carefully. This tends to be overshadowed by pre existing perceptions, such as Brian's mistake in conflating 'harm' with rights regardless of how many times I have carefully avoided 'harm' as an argument in favor of definitions. Here, you appear to somehow think I have been arguing case laws.

Morality is upstream of law and governance, not downstream....blah blah blah ....

Wow. Even more WOW.   “I write what I intend to write”....sounds like “I’m the decider - I decide”. 
2 beers and a double dose of THAT should help anyone sleep.  What endless shi#te. 

The dictionary will welcome a new entry for Sophistry!
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Kascadia
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PostWed May 06, 2020 12:31 am 
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MtnGoat wrote:
“What are you going to go tell your little girl or your little boy tonight? That you took a baton and you crushed somebody’s skull that was a mom?

MtnGoat wrote:
Integrity and respect over fear and force.

LOL

The bravery, the bravery

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Man, stretch thy reason hither, so thou mayest comprehend these things. Johannes Kepler
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neek
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PostWed May 06, 2020 12:42 am 
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MtnGoat wrote:
I didn't make it about guns or Trump

Sorry if I wasn't clear - did not mean "you" literally, rather a certain subset of the protesters. Presumably you are not in any of the pictures above.

My only request at the moment (if you choose) is to stop saying "it's" when you mean "its".  It really messes with my syntactic processing, adding cognitive burden to arguments that are already hard enough for me to follow.

MtnGoat wrote:
I also disagree what teaching individual responsibility and the questioning of the abrogation of rights is not only not anti social, it is truly pro social. Truly civilized people don't threaten innocent people into compliance over their own personal values when no rights are being violated.

"F*** Inslee" in big letters on your truck is pro social and good education for children?  Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.  I'm equally unimpressed with the oversized "f*** Trump" bumper stickers.
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treeswarper
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PostWed May 06, 2020 7:03 am 
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The antifas, who get bashed by cops should start packing guns and bibles.  Sounds like that's all you need to subdue cops. embarassedlaugh.gif

Matt Shea can attest to that.  Yes, he and his armed idiots have a plan that seems a bit strange if you think a bit about it.  They want to establish a state that will honor the constitution but also will promote his religion.  Guns n Bibles.  Sounds like a good name for a band or a store.

He's been involved in some of the recent idiocy.  That ought to make folks feel better.

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MtnGoat
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PostWed May 06, 2020 7:34 am 
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fourteen410 wrote:
Getting along shouldn't be the primary goal of a discussion. The goal is to hear different opinions and sometimes even challenge your own. Echo chambers may feel good, but they are blinding. I don't often agree with MtnGoat, but I don't mind having an opposing POV.

On a different note, what's with the passive aggressive comments about ignoring people lately? If you're going to ignore someone, great - not sure why it has to be announced.

The getting along card is played to demand ideological conformity. Civility is already present, for most anyway, what is rankling these folks is their own emotional response to arguments they disagree with. Getting along is so important that not one of them will change their own arguments in order to get along.( Nor can they admit the response emotions to posts are chosen by them, not 'caused' by some other person.)

It signals the person is smart, correct, or superior enough to not like the arguments from person X, but due to how outrageously wrong, mean, bad, etc those comments are, they need to be ignored.

It's a social move which for some, has to be re-announced periodically. In MC's case, it's almost always accompanied by at least one short drive by slam, then the reminder about ignoring what he just commented on anyway. Also with MC in particular, you could set a biweekly clock by the regularity of the "i'm ignoring you and your specific argument you just made today" display. Ski just gets overwhelmed by what he's ignoring and re-announces at random.

It's the peacock display of The Woker Than Thou Bird.

I can respect the folks who just use the feature and no one knows but them, without the "I"m leaving now" foot stomp/hair toss routine.

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MtnGoat
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PostWed May 06, 2020 7:38 am 
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neek wrote:
Sorry if I wasn't clear - did not mean "you" literally, rather a certain subset of the protesters. Presumably you are not in any of the pictures above.

My only request at the moment (if you choose) is to stop saying "it's" when you mean "its".  It really messes with my syntactic processing, adding cognitive burden to arguments that are already hard enough for me to follow.

neek wrote:
"F*** Inslee" in big letters on your truck is pro social and good education for children?  Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.  I'm equally unimpressed with the oversized "f*** Trump" bumper stickers.

Sorry about your cognitive burden, but frankly its an issue which will probably continue.  smile.gif You strike me as a person with crap tons (metric) of extra capacity on that front.

Yeah, that specific example is not my fave, the public language use of that on a banner with kids is lousy.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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MtnGoat
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PostWed May 06, 2020 7:44 am 
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Randito wrote:
It's only speculation that the police responded to his words, rather than the actions of the crowd, which did not engage in violent behavior.   

You still haven't cited any case law supporting your position on masks in public spaces. 

Article VI, Clause 2 of the constitution establishes that the law is isn't what you think and it isn't what I think -- it is what the Supreme court decides.    That's is why citing a case decided by the courts is essential to sustaining an argument.     You have repeatedly chosen to babble incoherently rather than cite a case that supports your argument.

And as it has become clear, and as I'll make clear, I do not intend to. What power *does* because it can it utterly uninteresting to me and has a track record of horror as long as human history.

What it *should* do, and why, or why not, is what interests me, and unless otherwise specified (law X prevents greeniacs from destroying private property), I am not discussing case law in discussions. I thought I already covered this but I see I need to be more explicit.

Citing a case is essential if you are making a legal argument. It's irrelevant to moral arguments, and as I already noted, morality is upstream of law, not downstream, and this is my interest.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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MtnGoat
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PostWed May 06, 2020 7:45 am 
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Kascadia wrote:
LOL

The bravery, the bravery

Correct.

Braver than those hiding at home, demanding other folks be forced to hide at home too, because they choose to and their fear is more important than other people.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Waterman
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PostWed May 06, 2020 7:48 am 
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The debate of how to adjust to living with covid -19 has moved from a conversation based on health and science to a conversation about liberty.
Live as you wish, treat those who disagree with kindness.

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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,I took the one less traveled by. And that has made all the difference.
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MtnGoat
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PostWed May 06, 2020 7:50 am 
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jinx'sboy wrote:
Wow. Even more WOW.   “I write what I intend to write”....sounds like “I’m the decider - I decide”. 
2 beers and a double dose of THAT should help anyone sleep.  What endless shi#te. 

The dictionary will welcome a new entry for Sophistry!

I don't understand why being clear about word choices and deliberate use of words is somehow a problem, or represents some outrageous statement.

But i do understand folks who claim it's all so wrong but can't bother to show it, but do have time to publicly proclaim it.

I have to admit, it is fun to see that one poster can have the impact on minds so as to influence a succession of thread name changes. And almost certainly from one of the folks who dislikes my comments. tongue.gif

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MtnGoat
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PostWed May 06, 2020 7:55 am 
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Waterman wrote:
The debate of how to adjust to living with covid -19 has moved from a conversation based on health and science to a conversation about liberty.
Live as you wish, treat those who disagree with kindness.

Good words

I'd say...live as you wish, leave other people the hell alone. No one else is your project.

Wear that N95. Go nowhere you don't choose to. This is not difficult unless you think it is somehow your job to fix other people.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Randito
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PostWed May 06, 2020 8:34 am 
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MtnGoat wrote:
Citing a case is essential if you are making a legal argument. It's irrelevant to moral arguments, and as I already noted, morality is upstream of law, not downstream, and this is my interest.

On the moral front then.  Chosing to go without a mask during a pandemic risks harming other people.   What is the moral justification for risking the health of others when it can easily be avoided?
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Ski
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PostWed May 06, 2020 8:38 am 
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Waterman wrote:
The debate of how to adjust to living with covid -19 has moved from a conversation based on health and science to a conversation about liberty.

Well... actually, the original title of the thread was "The Politics of Covid-19", because the other "Covid" thread kind of got run off the rails.

It's called "co-opting" (aka "commandeering") - I mentioned it here. What's happening here right now is an example of "If we can't co-opt (or commandeer) the words, we'll just hijack the entire conversation to suit our own narrative."
Done primarily for the purpose of distraction, deflection, and obfuscation.
Pretty easy to see through, really: as jinx'sboy calls it above: "endless shite".

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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MtnGoat
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PostWed May 06, 2020 8:39 am 
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Randito wrote:
On the moral front then.  Chosing to go without a mask during a pandemic risks harming other people.   What is the moral justification for risking the health of others when it can easily be avoided?

The entire issue is a value judgment, and 'risk' and 'harm' are so subjective as to be dang near religious in basis. Nearly everything one does is some form of 'risk' to others.

The moral justification is simple..everyone owns the right to judge risks and act accordingly for themselves. I don't insist you disregard what you see as risk, and all I ask is folks respect other's right to judge risks and act on them as well.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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JonnyQuest
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PostWed May 06, 2020 8:45 am 
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MtnGoat wrote:
unless you think it is somehow your job to fix other people.

Of course it's not.  However, when your choice of actions or behavior may be detrimental to the health of others, showing some compassion and consideration by altering your behavior seems a gesture of goodwill and common decency.

For me that means wearing a mask when I'm shopping, picking up takeout, and venturing out into other more (crowded) public spaces.  However, I have yet to wear a mask while walking the dogs in our neighborhood, as our streets are moderately quiet and if I see someone approaching on the same side of the street, which happens maybe once every couple of blocks, I just cross to the other side for distancing.
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