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gb
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Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 6309 | TRs | Pics
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gb
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 Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:51 am |
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Burg
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Joined: 13 Feb 2014
Posts: 47 | TRs | Pics
Location: PNW |
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Burg
Member
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Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:17 pm |
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The great outdoors has gotten a nice break from traffic lately. That is about to change - it is goin to be a PACKED out there. Nice to see them opening the outdoors back up though. Looking forward to it.
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Stephen B
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Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 108 | TRs | Pics
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| Burg wrote: | | The great outdoors has gotten a nice break from traffic lately. That is about to change - it is goin to be a PACKED out there. Nice to see them opening the outdoors back up though. Looking forward to it. |
woohoo! party on rattlesnake ledge!
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dixon
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Joined: 24 Apr 2020
Posts: 176 | TRs | Pics
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dixon
Member
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Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:13 pm |
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| Stephen B wrote: | | woohoo! party on rattlesnake ledge! |
Pre-party on Little Si  .... I noticed in the link shared above it states "Public gatherings, events, team sports and camping, among other things, are not resuming at this time." ... id argue that Rattlesnake, Mt Si et al are the very definition of public gatherings! In other news, I saw a guy this weekend on the trail with full on PPE in a hazmat suit, interesting times folks!
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Secret Agent Man
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Joined: 24 Dec 2015
Posts: 164 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
| dixon wrote: | | I saw a guy this weekend on the trail with full on PPE in a hazmat suit |
They always say this kind of new gear is hazmat proof AND breathable but don’t believe the marketing hype, it’s always a trade off.
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zephyr
aka friendly hiker
Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 3370 | TRs | Pics
Location: West Seattle |
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zephyr
aka friendly hiker
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Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:34 pm |
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
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Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:21 pm |
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Right as the restrictions hit I was planning a canoe trip to the Ghost Forest, a place of great scientific and historic importance. I was going to stay in my van nearby at a state park and also enjoy the beaches.
Even though I still can’t go, because of no overnight stays allowed yet, and as a day trip it violates my conception of doing only nearby trips, I’m still happy to see progress is being made towards a more full opening of facilities.
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Foist
Sultan of Sweat
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 3974 | TRs | Pics
Location: Back! |
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Foist
Sultan of Sweat
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Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:34 am |
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The key is "thus far." Absent a miracle cure or vaccine in the near future, all Inslee did was delay the day we all get it. So basically what we've done is prolong the agony. And banning outdoor recreation didn't even do that. In countries where they've done intense contact tracing, outdoor transmission is essentially unheard of.
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Randito
Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:37 am |
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| Foist wrote: | | all Inslee did was delay the day we all get it. |
Precisely -- but if the measures hadn't been taken, the peak number of people infected and needing hospitalization would have been much higher. As it has been hospital capacity wasn't exceeded. Without the measures taken many people needing hospital treatment wouldn't have gotten it and many more people would die as a result.
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Foist
Sultan of Sweat
Joined: 08 May 2006
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Location: Back! |
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Foist
Sultan of Sweat
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Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:22 am |
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| Randito wrote: | | Precisely -- but if the measures hadn't been taken, the peak number of people infected and needing hospitalization would have been much higher. As it has been hospital capacity wasn't exceeded. Without the measures taken many people needing hospital treatment wouldn't have gotten it and many more people would die as a result. |
Maybe. I doubt it, considering that we barely reached 20% of capacity. We're sitting now at 10%, while people who need other surgeries and operations for other conditions are waiting and home and getting sicker and/or more miserable. The evidence indicates that having a total lockdown versus restricting gatherings and protecting the elderly does not make that big a difference. But regardless, I agree that was the original purpose -- to keep the severe cases within hospital capacity. But that is clearly not the purpose anymore, based on what Inslee has been saying and doing. The PR campaign to scare everyone into "social distancing" to "flatten the curve" has caused the expectation to shift into something that actually has nothing to do with flattening the curve. Now, the political purpose and public expectation seems to have morphed into "minimization of infections" or "containment" -- even though that is practically impossible. So the politicians have painted themselves into a corner. The only realistic way forward is to relax the restrictions enough that we can get this thing over with without causing the hospitals to overflow. But the politicians and media have scared everyone into believing that they can and must actually prevent themselves and others from *ever* getting infected, which is pure fantasy.
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Randito
Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:58 am |
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| Foist wrote: | | Randito wrote: | | Precisely -- but if the measures hadn't been taken, the peak number of people infected and needing hospitalization would have been much higher. As it has been hospital capacity wasn't exceeded. Without the measures taken many people needing hospital treatment wouldn't have gotten it and many more people would die as a result. |
Maybe. I doubt it, considering that we barely reached 20% of capacity. We're sitting now at 10%, while people who need other surgeries and operations for other conditions are waiting and home and getting sicker and/or more miserable. The evidence indicates that having a total lockdown versus restricting gatherings and protecting the elderly does not make that big a difference. But regardless, I agree that was the original purpose -- to keep the severe cases within hospital capacity. But that is clearly not the purpose anymore, based on what Inslee has been saying and doing. The PR campaign to scare everyone into "social distancing" to "flatten the curve" has caused the expectation to shift into something that actually has nothing to do with flattening the curve. Now, the political purpose and public expectation seems to have morphed into "minimization of infections" or "containment" -- even though that is practically impossible. So the politicians have painted themselves into a corner. The only realistic way forward is to relax the restrictions enough that we can get this thing over with without causing the hospitals to overflow. But the politicians and media have scared everyone into believing that they can and must actually prevent themselves and others from *ever* getting infected, which is pure fantasy. |
It's a lot easier to look backward and make "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" criticism of decisions made with partial and uncertain knowledge. Had infections exceeded projections there would be criticisms that the restrictions weren't strict enough.
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puzzlr
Mid Fork Rocks
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 7220 | TRs | Pics
Location: Stuck in the middle |
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puzzlr
Mid Fork Rocks
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Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:04 am |
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There are several other threads where that debate rages on. Is it possible for any thread to stay on topic?
This is a little old (04/23/2020) but a slew of outdoor organizations wrote an open letter to the Governor to allow opening state lands to outdoor jobs that can be done safely. One of the reasons is to reduce the vandalism going on with no staff in the field.
| Quote: | | Please allow jobs outdoors, which can be done safely, in the first phase of returning additional people to work.
...
Nonprofits and government agencies also employ and sponsor staff and crews to build and maintain trails and recreation facilities. While many people are obeying stay-at-home orders and closures of recreation areas, we are learning about wild turkey slaughter on the LT Murray Wildlife Area, stolen toilets in the Teanaway Community Forest, and vandals cutting down fences, driving trucks into roadblocks, and breaking into bathrooms on state lands. We are conscious that the longer our staff remain indoors, the longer this damage goes without repairs, and the greater the backlog of work to make our public lands and recreation areas safe and sanitary for regular use. |
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
Member
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Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:08 am |
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| Randito wrote: | | It's a lot easier to look backward and make "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" criticism of decisions made with partial and uncertain knowledge. Had infections exceeded projections there would be criticisms that the restrictions weren't strict enough. |
it's also super easy to reference flawed projections and then claim we saved us, just like the cup noodles i had for lunch staved off the martian invasion scheduled for the afternoon.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
Member
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Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:09 am |
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| puzzlr wrote: | | There are several other threads where that debate rages on. Is it possible for any thread to stay on topic? |
Not usually.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Randito
Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:11 am |
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| MtnGoat wrote: | | it's also super easy to reference flawed projections and then claim we saved us, just like the cup noodles i had for lunch staved off the martian invasion scheduled for the afternoon. |
So your saying you have a mathematical model that predicted a Martian invasion this afternoon?
I thought you didn't believe in models.
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