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pula58
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PostMon Apr 20, 2020 3:51 pm 
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I have a 1" sensor camera..hoping to get something  with better image quality (sharper, more dynamic range).

Things it needs to have:
electronic viewfinder
small, lightweight.
modest zoom range (I don't want a fixed lens)
APS-C (to keep camera and lens size down).

Currently I have a Canon G5x II
It has nice low-light capability due to it's F 1.8 lens.
But I'm kinda surprised that the images are no sharper than my Canon G15

I am open to any all all ideas!
thanks folks!
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mike
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PostMon Apr 20, 2020 4:11 pm 
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I'd look at 43.
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PostMon Apr 20, 2020 5:03 pm 
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Fujifilm X-E3. I like mine a lot. I have stopped taking my DSLR on hiking trips and have used the Fuji instead since its small and lightweight enough for hiking.

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pcg
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PostMon Apr 20, 2020 8:46 pm 
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Im very happy with the Olympus u4/3 cameras. I have E-M1 Mk1 and Mk2 bodies and two Pro zoom lenses, both f/2.8. Superb image quality. As you would expect, the smaller you go in sensor size the higher the noise level, all other things being equal. That being said, I regularly print up to 2 x 6 and, except for low light situations, noise is not a problem, and the M-Zuiko Pro lenses are very sharp. This is certainly much smaller than a similar DSLR, but its still a significant load if youre backpacking.

I have a Sony RX100 M6 which I use for hiking when Im not doing serious photography. Its much smaller than the Olympus setup, but still takes very high quality photos. 20MP and very sharp Zeiss lens, but lots of low light noise.

Also... you've got to be careful with the Sony camera, which is not dust and weather-resistant (which the Olympus is). The fact that it's so small and iight encourages one (at least me) to treat it with less care than a larger/heavier camera. Don't. I'm on my second one and it's currently being repaired/cleaned. I dropped it face down while the lens was closed, from 6 inches, into powdery sand. Now the lens won't open properly. The first one somehow got a small dent on the lens closure mechanism that also prevented it from opening properly. Non-repairable and out of warranty - ouch! Sony treated me right though by selling me a new one for less than 1/3 price of the current version, which is M7.
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InFlight
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PostTue Apr 21, 2020 11:31 am 
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I would look at the Fuji X-T4, it seems to be the best APS-C outdoors camera available.

Olympus OMD M1 & M5 series have good weather sealing reputation in m4/3.

I have a Full Frame Nikon (D610) that I use for day-hikes and nice weather overnights.

Any weather resistant camera is OK in light rain, but needs to be stowed in any heavy rain.  Also only some Lens are considered weather resistant.

My current multi-night backpacking Camera is a Nikon 1 AW. Its the only exchangeable lens camera that is rated for underwater use, and is thus waterproof.  Full setup

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Backpacker Joe
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PostFri Apr 24, 2020 5:39 am 
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Im in the process of changing over from my Canon 5D mk4 to a Sony a7-R4. Its much smaller and lighter and it seems to lead the industry right now in mirrorless SLR's.

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pula58
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PostFri Apr 24, 2020 1:21 pm 
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Thanks everyone!

I'm not really interested in full frame because the lenses are too big and heavy, that's why I mentioned APC-c sensor.
But I am curious about the suggestion for micro 4/3 sensor. Why?

Thanks!
P.
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mike
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PostFri Apr 24, 2020 1:33 pm 
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43 sensor is only slightly smaller than APS-C. The difference in quality is negligible. Lenses or technique make more of a difference. Comparable lenses and bodies are quite small.  My EM5ii is water/dust resistant as is several of my lenses. This came in handy many times. There are a lot of choices and price points.
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PostFri Apr 24, 2020 4:13 pm 
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Panasonic has made some remarkably compact, good quality, affordable micro 4/3 lenses.  For the past 6 years I've been using a Panasonic GX7 with the ultra-compact 35-100mm zoom (equivalent to 70-200mm FF), and the whole thing fits easily into my jacket pocket---   inconceivable with a larger format. (Note that I'm referring to the f/4-5.6 35-100mm, not the much larger and more expensive f/2.8). They also make a miniscule 12-32mm.  These tiny lenses are why I think micro 4/3 is the ideal travel format.

I've been extremely happy with the GX7, and its latest incarnation, the GX9, looks even nicer.  The form factor is just about perfect for hiking/scrambling/traveling. Image quality is great, the manual controls are nicely laid out, and the tilting viewfinder is way more useful than I expected.

But the GX7/GX9 are not weather-sealed, and neither are the ultra-compact zooms I mentioned. Weather-sealing seems like a good idea, but I haven't found its absence to be a problem. I'm out in heavy rain quite a lot, and while I generally try to keep the camera dry (as I would even with a weather-sealed camera), it has gotten wet plenty of times over the past six years without keeling over. I'm probably pushing my luck, though...
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gb
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PostSat Apr 25, 2020 7:42 am 
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pula58 wrote:
Thanks everyone!

I'm not really interested in full frame because the lenses are too big and heavy, that's why I mentioned APC-c sensor.
But I am curious about the suggestion for micro 4/3 sensor. Why?

Thanks!
P.

I've used m4/3 for six years now. As has been said above by pcg, the Pro lenses are superbly sharp, color rendition is excellent, and out of camera jpegs are so good that in most cases they are hard to beat using RAW if you set the camera up for the best quality jpegs. They require very little in the way of post processing. These are about 10mb on my original bodies, the Olympus EM-1 1, and 11-12 mb with my newer EM-1 II (which I bought for birding). The corresponding Raw images are 16 mb and 20 mb.

In evaluating images I view on a 27" Mac monitor and I judge them for detail and sharpness basically by seeing how close I can get to an image on my screen before the detail starts to fall apart. That is about 8" to 10", depending on the lens. Closer than that and it hardly matters as you can no longer see the context of the image. In viewing a print it is the same thing, and I can print high quality 20x24 images.

m4/3 has a huge array of lenses from many Pro lenses to much lighter consumer grade lenses that can weigh as little as 100 grams. Depending on which of these latter lenses they can also provide good to very good rendition.

For me, though, when hiking/scrambling/botanizing I usually take my EM-1 I's which weigh I recall 430 grams (I take one body). The Olympus 12-40, which has the same angle of view as 24-80 FF, weighs 382 grams. On certain hikes I carry also the Panasonic 35-100 F2.8 (70-200) @ 330 grams. Especially for ridge top hikes and astro/landscape I use the Olympus 8mm F1.8 FE, though usually I shoot as if it were a rectilinear lens - weight 315 grams, and an angle of view of 145 degrees horizontal. In flower season I may carry the 60mm 1:1 macro at 182 grams. The beauty of m4/3 is state of art stabilization which was 4 stops with the EM-1 I and ranges to 6.5 to 7 stops with the newest EM-1 III and the professional birding action EM-1 X - which would be too large for me. The EM-1 III, however, would not be. There is also the newest EM- 5 III which is comparable in size to my EM-1 I's - a bit smaller actually. Because of the great stabilization, I can handhold to 1/5 to 1/3 second with the EM-1 I and to 1/10 second with my EM-1 II. Both of these mean that the only need for a tripod is in astro/landscape and close-up photography where the limiting factor is the ability to keep correct distance for focusing and depth of field. The savings on not ever carrying a tripod is huge when hiking/backpacking. So, let's say I do a hike where I carry a range of focal lengths from 24-200mm FF - less than two pounds; or carry all of the above at just 3 pounds.

This February I bought a much more expensive and larger lens - the Olympus 300 F4 (600mm) which is a top quality birding lens. The images are stunningly good. Olympus also innovates in birding having features like Pro Capture, that allows me to capture a Warbler lifting off to begin flying, etc. This requires also one of the newer bodies. And I can hand carry this long focal length lens and body in one hand by the grip for an hour or two.

I mention mainly Olympus here, but Panasonic also produces excellent bodies and an array of lenses from Pro quality Leica branded, to some of the smaller lenses. In all there must be more than 50 available lenses in the m4/3 system.

But in addition to good to excellent IQ, and light weight, m4/3 bodies have a great number of innovative software algorithms that can allow you to, say, shoot in camera focus stacked shots of wildflowers, etc.; shoot using something called Live Composite where you can shoot fireworks or star trails; and with the EM-1 III, shoot hand held star images to 12-15 seconds. These are just a few examples. I use the Focus Stacking feature a lot and the images are excellent; though with mosses I use a tripod and perhaps a Close-up Filter. Weather sealing with Pro lenses and bodies is industry leading.

Photography has always been important to me in my outdoor pursuits of backcountry skiing, hiking, backpacking, and more recently, botany. In rock/alpine rock climbing, I would have seldom carried a significant camera. m4/3 enables me to get excellent images with a very light package.

If you want to see examples of Olympus quality images, a great place to look is Petr Bambousek's website. There are no finer images anywhere on the internet. https://500px.com/sulasulacom

My image was selected as the lead image for the University of Washington Botany seminar, and also for the Xmas card image from the Burke Herbarium. Otherwise, I don't put that many of my images out there.
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pcg
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PostSun Apr 26, 2020 8:37 pm 
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pula58 wrote:
I'm not really interested in full frame because the lenses are too big and heavy, that's why I mentioned APC-c sensor.
But I am curious about the suggestion for micro 4/3 sensor. Why?

Because APC-c bodies and lenses are too big and heavy.
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InFlight
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PostMon Apr 27, 2020 11:14 am 
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pcg wrote:
Because APC-c bodies and lenses are too big and heavy.

The FUJI X-T4 is 21.41 ounces with battery.
The Olympus OMD E-M1 III is 20.46 ounces with battery.

I'm not sure why the size is all that relevant, neither one is a pocket camera.
The Fuji Body is 135 x 93 x 84 mm
The Olympus Body is 134 x 91 x 69 mm 

Multiple μ4/3 lens might be lighter.  The higher crop factor does make equivalently wide-angle landscape lens for μ4/3 heaver.  (20mm APSC = 15mm μ4/3)

The accessories you opt to carry such as a camera holder, tripod choice, lens hood, lens cases, extra batteries, and filters are a more significant weight factor.

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PostMon Apr 27, 2020 12:21 pm 
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A body is just one item. And the EM-1 III is not the smallest m4/3 body, anyway. There is the EM-10II and EM-5 III.

The weight is in lenses, particularly long telephotos or super wide angles.

Even more so in tripods. With m4/3 bodies you would rarely need a tripod.
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InFlight
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PostMon Apr 27, 2020 4:37 pm 
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The EM10 series is not water resistant.  The EM1 is more feature consistent with the Fuji.

The Olympus OMD is not more or less light sensitive than other cameras.   You can't use it handheld at shutter speeds above 1/60 without motion blur.  If your shooting landscapes at F/11 or F/16 and ISO under 200, you will be not be able to hand-hold it during golden hour.  If you want to compromise ISO and noise to hand-hold it, have at it.  Tripods have a real purpose.

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gb
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PostMon Apr 27, 2020 6:11 pm 
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InFlight wrote:
The EM10 series is not water resistant.  The EM1 is more feature consistent with the Fuji.

The Olympus OMD is not more or less light sensitive than other cameras.   You can't use it handheld at shutter speeds above 1/60 without motion blur.  If your shooting landscapes at F/11 or F/16 and ISO under 200, you will be not be able to hand-hold it during golden hour.  If you want to compromise ISO and noise to hand-hold it, have at it.  Tripods have a real purpose.

You clearly don't know much about OMD cameras. What on earth are you talking about "you can't use it at SS above 1/60 second without motion blur." Lack of sharpness/focus happens at very low SS unless you are talking about birds in flight or perhaps a skier. But with even the 6 year old EM-1 I, and focal lengths in the mid-range I could consistently handhold at a SS of 1/20 second and with care 1/10 second. The best I did was 1/3 second. Newer bodies are 2-3 stops better than that. You might be confused with something called shutter shock which is caused by the closing of the shutter (like mirror slap). Once Olympus initiated a setting called '0' second shutter shock" probably later in 2016, that problem was eliminated.

Second, the smaller sensor of m4/3 means that not only is the FL double what one would find in a FF of the same name - say 40mm, but the DOF with m4/3 is twice that of FF cameras. Consequently, you don't shoot landscapes with FL's in the wide to mid-range almost ever at F11 or F16. That's only necessary if you are operating right at the limit of potential DOF - well beyond what a FF could even do. I have never used F16 for landscape and have only very rarely used F11, say when there is a flower within 20" of the lens in a scene that stretches to infinity. I have one such shot at m4/3 12mm in the Olympics and I have learned with the 8mm FE that I have to use F8 with a flower not closer than 12" from the lens and a scene stretching to infinity. You can look all of this up at Cambridge in Color for specific numbers. I ordinarily shoot complex landscape images at F7.1 because I almost never miss any. With less complexity, I may shoot at F4.5 to F5.6. Most often I shoot landscape images in MF with Focus Peaking.

Because of this doubling of DOF, m4/3 is superb for such scenes in landscape but it is not as good if you like an out of focus background for say a portrait.

As to your comments about a tripod, guffaw! I have a series of shots from an October 19th camp and unobstructed horizon view where I shot a last sun shot of a friend at base ISO at 1/10 second at 7:23 pm. Still at base ISO at 8:22 I have a shot of bluelight horizon at 1/25 second. Both were handheld.

I only need a tripod for astro/landscape images which have SS's of about 20 to 25-30 seconds (macro is different as DOF may be just a few mm).
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