Forum Index > Trail Talk > Hi Way 2 and Eagle Falls
Previous :: Next Topic  
Author Message
rossb
Member
Member


Joined: 23 Sep 2002
Posts: 1343 | TRs

rossb
  Top

Member
PostThu Jul 30, 2020 7:20 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Anne Elk wrote:
rossb wrote:
I just think that if you add a big lot (and they could add a really, really big lot) and add signs along the highway, then very few fools will park along the highway.

Inner curmudgeon speaking, again: Why do that and encourage even more over-use of that area?

Remember all of the suggestions (most of which were in the video I referenced):

1) Build a big lot.
2) Charge to park there.
3) Close it down while you clean it up. Notify everyone that it is closed for cleaning -- to send a message that if the mess continues, it will be closed again.
4) Run a public service campaign to reduce litter and graffiti (similar to "Don't Mess with Texas").

By the way, the video was taken four years ago. Most of the problems are not due to overuse, but misuse. Like trash dumped at the Middle Fork, graffiti is less likely to occur if you make it easier for law abiding people to access the area.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
rossb
Member
Member


Joined: 23 Sep 2002
Posts: 1343 | TRs

rossb
  Top

Member
PostThu Jul 30, 2020 7:29 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Sky Hiker wrote:
Ski wrote:
People drown in Washington State rivers every year. Can't shut down all the rivers.

So when an isolated area causes so many avoidable deaths i.e. Ice Caves has the USFS not taken the initiative to close the area down? YES

The Ice Caves trail is still open, and will likely stay open for the foreseeable future. So yeah, that is a great example. Even though the ice caves are really dangerous, the USFS doesn't close it down. They put us signs warning people, but they don't close it down. I could easily see more signs here, since (like the ice caves) there are dangers that people aren't aware of (even though it seems obvious).

Keep in mind, in both cases a lot of people (probably a majority) are very safe. Lots of people walk the ice caves trail and admire the caves from a safe distance. Lots of people walk down to the water, and barely dip their feet in (it is extremely cold after all).
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
timberghost
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 495 | TRs

timberghost
  Top

Member
PostThu Jul 30, 2020 7:30 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
down.gif you can't put in a crosswalk without putting a stop light on Highway 2. If you look on 2 the only places you see a crosswalk is where a stop light is. They wont make a parking lot for an area used 3 months of less out of the year, not cost effective
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 11141 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostThu Jul 30, 2020 9:02 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Sky Hiker wrote:
So when an isolated area causes so many avoidable deaths i.e. Ice Caves has the USFS not taken the initiative to close the area down? YES

Mt. Everest is an isolated area where people die. The Nepalese government is still issuing climbing permits.
The summit of Mt. Rainier is an isolated area where people die. The Park Service still lets people climb up there.
While not necessarily "isolated", the Pacific Ocean is a place where people die from drowning. Nobody has suggested that we "shut down" any of the beaches.
For years, I thought summer began when the first person drowned up on the Green River at Flaming Gorge State Park. The State hasn't closed it down.
People die all the time falling in their bathtubs. Should we outlaw bathtubs?

Rivers are dangerous. I've stated that many times here on this site. People drown. Shall we "shut down" every river in the state?

Americans will fight to the death for their right to be stupid. As noted in the Salon.com article cited yesterday in another thead, the word "freedumb has inexplicably become part of the American lexicon.

If you jump into a river, or get into a tiny inflatable rubber boat in a river, you are taking the risk that you might drown.

You can only do so much to protect people from their own stupidity.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Sky Hiker
Member
Member


Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1124 | TRs
Location: outside
Sky Hiker
  Top

Member
PostThu Jul 30, 2020 9:13 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Now you are reaching. As has been said warning signs posted for a long time there.. I can for see liability issues when you admit it is dangerous and open yourself to lawsuits just like what happened at the Ice Caves. Win or lose do you think the USFS wants the court battle.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/family-sues-over-girls-death-at-big-four-ice-caves/
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 11141 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostThu Jul 30, 2020 9:22 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
No, not reaching at all.

Ask this guy:

Charles Darwin
Charles Darwin

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 11141 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostThu Jul 30, 2020 9:25 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
As to the lawsuit comment, we live in a litigious society today. People sue other people all the time. Nothing new there.

The Remington Arms Company just filed bankruptcy again yesterday. Guess all those class-action suits resulting from gun deaths finally got to them.

Maybe we should just outlaw guns too.... along with bathtubs.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
timberghost
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 495 | TRs

timberghost
  Top

Member
PostThu Jul 30, 2020 9:44 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Why not hiking poles you left that out in your far stretched analogy. Precedence.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 11141 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostThu Jul 30, 2020 10:05 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Sorry, I don't use hiking poles, so that hadn't occurred to me. wink.gif

Far-stretched? Really?

The Center for Disease Control wrote:
From 2005-2014, there were an average of 3,536 fatal unintentional drownings (non-boating related) annually in the United States — about ten deaths per day. An additional 332 people died each year from drowning in boating-related incidents.

The Wall Street Journal wrote:
Deaths caused by drowning in bathtubs have risen by 70% over the past 10 years, with nine out of 10 involving those aged 65 or older, Japan’s Consumer Affairs Agency said.

According to a report by the agency, 4,866 people drowned to death in a bathtub at households in 2014, up from 2,870 in 2004

(* 4866 = 13.33 deaths per day from drowning in bathtubs in 2014 *)

In fact, 700 people worldwide are killed every year by toasters. The United States alone has 300 toaster-related deaths. Most of the deaths are the result of electrical shock from sticking a knife into the slots to remove jammed toast. That is 175 times more deaths from toasters than from shark attacks.

If you really want to save the planet, I suggest we outlaw toasters and bathtubs.

Let me know at the next nwhikers social if you want to see the huge scar on my back I got from falling in my bathtub. wink.gif

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
JonnyQuest
Member
Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2013
Posts: 447 | TRs

JonnyQuest
  Top

Member
PostThu Jul 30, 2020 10:48 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Sky Hiker wrote:
So when an isolated area causes so many avoidable deaths i.e. Ice Caves has the USFS not taken the initiative to close the area down? YES

First, I'm sad that social media has concentrated such focus on this one particular public location, and I'm sorry people have perished due to the associated hazards.  But I'll again chance being called crass and voice my opinion that no publicly owned area / resource should be closed down due to associated dangers or deaths.  If the WSDOT wants to limit access due to Hwy 2 traffic concerns and safety, or if the managing agency opts to close access because of vandalism or similar, that's a separate conversation.  But closing due to risk of death is a Pandora's box I'd rather not open.  Once Eagle Falls is closed, what's next in line?  The Snoqualmie river between Snoqualmie Falls and Fall City?  There's been 2 or 3 deaths there over the past few months.  The list could keep going and include popular areas to climb, ski, and even hike.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Nancyann
Member
Member


Joined: 28 Jul 2013
Posts: 1744 | TRs
Location: Sultan Basin
Nancyann
  Top

Member
PostThu Jul 30, 2020 11:14 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Just drove by and WSDOT has roped it off and shut it down completely. Lots of workers and trucks, lots of signs being installed. No one is there at the falls.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
thunderhead
Member
Member


Joined: 14 Oct 2015
Posts: 1035 | TRs

thunderhead
  Top

Member
PostThu Jul 30, 2020 11:39 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Remove the warning signs.  Let darwin claim those that make poor choices.  Ticket and tow the idiots that block roads.  Also big tickets for those that dont clean up after themselves.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
timberghost
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 495 | TRs

timberghost
  Top

Member
PostThu Jul 30, 2020 11:49 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
INDEX — A man is presumed to have drowned after he went underwater Wednesday night near Eagle Falls.

First-responders were called to the scene around 6 p.m. Witnesses initially thought the man might have gotten to the shore somewhere else and did not call 911 right away, Sky Valley Fire Chief Eric Andrews said. The fire district used a drone to search from above while divers with the Snohomish County Sheriff’s Office looked through pools of water where someone could have gotten caught.

They never found the man. Searchers left the scene around 10 p.m., when it became too dark.

“There was not much more we could do at that point,” Andrews said.

The man likely drowned, Andrews said. His identity has not been released. The search was expected to resume Thursday.


Eagle Falls has been the site of several fatalities in recent years, especially in the heat of the summertime.

Social media videos of people going through the rapids or jumping into the river have increased the popularity of Eagles Falls, Sky Valley Fire Assistant Chief Ernie Walters recently told a Herald reporter.




The popular attraction along U.S. 2 has been the site of other fatalities and near-drownings in recent years. In June, 32-year-old Peter Sei, of Tacoma, died after he was swept away by the river. And last Saturday and Sunday, Sky Valley Fire responded to five incidents, including rescues of several people.

Andrews urged people to exercise caution. He said fire stations, including those with Sky Valley Fire, have programs to loan out flotation devices.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
rossb
Member
Member


Joined: 23 Sep 2002
Posts: 1343 | TRs

rossb
  Top

Member
PostThu Jul 30, 2020 1:59 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Nancyann wrote:
Just drove by and WSDOT has roped it off and shut it down completely. Lots of workers and trucks, lots of signs being installed. No one is there at the falls.

That is better than I hoped. I was afraid they might start towing without a clear sign that it was shut down. This is better. By the weekend, there will be lots of people driving by, saying WTF, turning around and going somewhere else. I was afraid a lot of people would get towed without a clue.

I think that is good in the short term. I don't think it will last though. I guess time will tell.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
rossb
Member
Member


Joined: 23 Sep 2002
Posts: 1343 | TRs

rossb
  Top

Member
PostThu Jul 30, 2020 2:25 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
timberghost wrote:
you can't put in a crosswalk without putting a stop light on Highway 2

And yet they did, for many years, at Stevens Pass. It wasn't until relatively recently that they added the overpass. There are lots of areas like that. Here is a good example: https://goo.gl/maps/deN3Hw7nB8xxs58h8. That's probably the best example of what I have in mind. This is a major highway. The parking lot is across the street from where people walk. On a nice summer day, thousands of people walk across the street, just to look at the waterfall for a few minutes, and then get back in their car. My guess is more people visit that waterfall than visit Eagle Falls (although they obviously spend a lot less time there). There is no traffic signal, just some warning signs. But the sign is well marked, as is the crosswalk. There are other signs, approaching the area, warning people to slow down (if memory serves, the speed limit also drops). It is way safer than the current situation, and in general, not that dangerous.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
  Display:     All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Forum Index > Trail Talk > Hi Way 2 and Eagle Falls
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
   Use Disclaimer Powered by phpBB Privacy Policy