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Randito
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Randito
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PostFri Oct 19, 2018 2:48 pm 
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Ski
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PostFri Oct 19, 2018 3:17 pm 
Let's hope there are lots of rocks along the trail on Rattlesnake Ledge! wink.gif

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Windstorm
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PostFri Oct 19, 2018 3:52 pm 
The funny thing is that aside from the weekend the goats were released, I haven't heard of any other sightings at Rattlesnake. And according to another news article I saw, the one that was spotted at Rattlesnake had moved out to the McClellan Butte area within a day or two (and is probably spreading the word to avoid Rattlesnake at all costs).

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treeswarper
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treeswarper
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PostFri Oct 19, 2018 4:48 pm 
Can we send some wolf packs to that area?

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Randito
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Randito
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PostFri Oct 19, 2018 6:38 pm 
Windstorm wrote:
(and is probably spreading the word to avoid Rattlesnake at all costs

I agree that goats travel large distances easily.

At least one of the justifications for relocating the goats from ONP was they had become habituated to people and would "stalk" them to slurp up human urine ( salt ) when released.

This sort of goat behavior is also observed in the Enchantments, The Robin's, etc to the degree that the USFS posts instructions to avoid urinating on vegetation and urinate on rocks or into rock crevices to avoid the goats chewing up heather and other vegetation in pursuit of salt.

The Rattlesnake area seems like a happy hunting ground for salt collection.

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coldrain108
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coldrain108
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PostSat Oct 20, 2018 3:48 pm 
This is what happens when one takes a leak on the vegetation when goats are hunting pee.

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Malachai Constant
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Malachai Constant
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PostSat Oct 20, 2018 4:44 pm 
I do not want to be an old sourpuss but bullets would have been a lot easier and cheaper.

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Randito
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Randito
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PostSat Oct 20, 2018 5:19 pm 
Malachai Constant wrote:
I do not want to be an old sourpuss but bullets would have been a lot easier and cheaper.

Indeed -- mountain goat hunting is legal in Washington.  It's hard for me to believe that relocating these goats from ONP was less administrative overhead and cost than permitting an "open season" on goat hunting -- or even offering a bounty on goats in ONP.

I think that political considerations were given priority over figuring out the most effective way to eradicate goats from ONP.

I suspect that a decade from now there will still be plenty of goats in ONP, despite the relocation effort.

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RodF
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PostSat Oct 20, 2018 6:01 pm 
Mtn Goat Mgmt Plan alternative C (just shoot them all) would've taken 1/3 the helicopter time and cost, fewer than 1/10 the number of heli landings within wilderness (and none of the translocation and vet costs), but was rejected.

This violates The Wilderness Act's prohibition of all but the minimum necessary use of motorized vehicles (helicopter).

RandyHiker wrote:
I think that political considerations were given priority over figuring out the most effective way to eradicate goats from ONP.

Apparently.  Obviously.

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Ski
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PostSat Oct 20, 2018 8:28 pm 
Malachai Constant wrote:
I do not want to be an old sourpuss but bullets would have been a lot easier and cheaper.

^ This plan of action has been supported for decades by a good many people, but they didn't cry and whine as loud as the "animal rights" whackos.

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Randito
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PostSun Oct 21, 2018 10:30 am 
catsp wrote:
would require Congressional action

I believe that goat hunting could be authorized by the  secretary of the interior without Congressional approval.  Hunting is allowed in a number of national parks.

https://www.doi.gov/blog/hunting-and-fishing-national-parks-and-fish-and-wildlife-refuges

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contour5
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PostSun Oct 21, 2018 11:07 am 
I suppose it’s already too late, but maybe next time we can skip the guns and the helicopters and just drop off a few lumps of salt.

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Bernardo
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Bernardo
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PostSun Oct 21, 2018 11:38 am 
I understand that goats don't belong in ONP, but if they are a problem for people salt licks sound like a good idea.

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Randito
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PostSun Oct 21, 2018 12:48 pm 
Salt licks wouldn't address the core issue with goats in ONP.  The goats were introduced in the 1920s and their grazing has altered the landscape.  Removal or extermination will allow the plant life and indigenous animals to exist in a manner unique to ONP.  That's the actual goal.   Protecting visitors from aggressive goats is a side benefit.

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Anne Elk
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Anne Elk
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PostSun Oct 21, 2018 4:46 pm 
When I read the Seattle Times article about the relocation and saw the maps, it crossed my mind that some of the locations aren't that far from heavily used areas.  Many of these goats are habituated to humans, I thought, and could end up causing as much trouble as they did in the Olympics.  Sure enough.  For all the relocation expense involved, many of these goats may end up having to be shot anyway.   mad.gif

It's why I'm against grizzly re-introduction, and why I just go livid about the wolf re-introduction, which has devolved into wolf culling because of ranchers' cattle losses.  Who could have seen that coming?   banghead.gif

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