Forum Index > Trail Talk > FB group Washington hikers and climbers a good or bad thing?
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BigBrunyon
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PostFri Jul 24, 2020 12:01 am 
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Cyclopath wrote:
I'm not sure how saturation became the one thing that really offends people.

Ya get these guys who start competin' over the larch colors. People get real into it. Gets outta hand. Other year, violence ensued! Gets outta hand.

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dixon
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PostFri Jul 24, 2020 2:59 pm 
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Animal Chin wrote:
I am tired of people posting about "A great place for solitude" and then telling one hundred plus thousand people where it is at.  One posting can turn a once great place into a crowded mess of people.

This ^^! WTA is also bad these days, 'trip reports' quickly devolve into a pi$$ing contest of who did the most gain, mileage etc. Apparently by posting a report the WTA app links it to that facebook page somehow. I'll never understand why someone posts a report of a quiet area and how they saw no people so therefore everyone MUST go now because this is the "best" place to socially distance. The very next day theres hoards of people and the cycle continues.

How many of these social media addicts would be doing stuff outdoors if there wasn't "credit" to be had? Probably next to none as noone there to see their "achievements".
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Kim Brown
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PostFri Jul 24, 2020 3:21 pm 
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dixon wrote:
Apparently by posting a report the WTA app links it to that facebook page somehow.

Clarify, please. The WTA app links a trip report to the WHC page?

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dixon
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PostFri Jul 24, 2020 3:24 pm 
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RumiDude wrote:
It's not just population growth, it's the growth in people hiking combined with population growth.

Agreed. I think it's also important to take into account the corporations who have contributed to the popularity of the activity through their pervasive marketing campaigns. REI and the outdoor gear/clothing brands have been on a marketing frenzy profiteering greatly under the coveted #OptOutside and #getOutside slogans. I'm not really sure who else benefits other than corporations from getting more people outside, the environment certainly doesn't and neither do the generations of backcountry folk who have enjoyed solitude and exploring wild places for decades. At its core, hiking is a consumption activity and gives nothing back, the earth doesn't "need" hikers and the age old argument of 'getting more people outside will lead to protecting our wilderness' has long been debunked.
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Ski
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PostFri Jul 24, 2020 3:46 pm 
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dixon wrote:
"...the age old argument of 'getting more people outside will lead to protecting our wilderness' has long been debunked...."

and your citation for this is.... ?

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Chief Joseph
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PostFri Jul 24, 2020 3:52 pm 
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Cyclopath wrote:
I'm not sure how saturation became the one thing that really offends people.

I compare it to fake breasts, I want the real deal!

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dixon
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PostFri Jul 24, 2020 4:14 pm 
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Ski wrote:
and your citation for this is.... ?

This article has a discussion around a scientific study around the topic and why the social media driven "stoke" wont save the land -
https://www.hcn.org/issues/50.8/recreation-your-stoke-wont-save-us

Also a good op-ed from Craig R. on this @ https://www.mountaineers.org/blog/looking-beyond-stoke-its-time-to-educate-the-masses. If you disagree perhaps you can provide a citation/evidence for the contrary? I would love to be wrong here but i'm just not seeing it.
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ejain
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PostFri Jul 24, 2020 6:11 pm 
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dixon wrote:
This article has a discussion around a scientific study around the topic and why the social media driven "stoke" wont save the land -
https://www.hcn.org/issues/50.8/recreation-your-stoke-wont-save-us

"in all cases, survey respondents cared more about environmental issues that affected their choice of recreation than issues that did not."

So maybe people's love of hiking didn't translate into concern about industrial pollution (note that this was in the 70s), but it does appear that they care about conservation, even if for selfish reasons.

I'd rather have wilderness areas suffer from overuse, than have them converted to golf courses and ski resorts (also for selfish reasons)...

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catsp
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PostFri Jul 24, 2020 6:29 pm 
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Chief Joseph wrote:
Cyclopath wrote:
I'm not sure how saturation became the one thing that really offends people.

I compare it to fake breasts, I want the real deal!

I say do what feels right for you CJ, just make sure you wear proper support.
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Ski
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PostFri Jul 24, 2020 7:08 pm 
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dixon:

That first "stoke" article you cited was discussed here on this site at great length, and I'm not sure that everyone here agreed with the author's conclusions.
And while Mr. Romano is very knowledgeable and well-respected, it's quite possible he doesn't have the answers to every question.

Your statement was about "'getting more people outside will lead to protecting our wilderness" which kind of flies in the face of the line member ejain pulled out of the same article you cited:

"in all cases, survey respondents cared more about environmental issues that affected their choice of recreation than issues that did not."

The bottom line is that in reality, there's really no way to quantify what degree of impact social media may or may not have on "protecting wilderness", any more than there is any way to accurately quantify what degree of impact Harvey Manning and Ira Spring's "100 Hikes" books may or may not have had on "protecting wilderness".

There is, nonetheless, truth in the statement that "getting more people outside" will have a net positive effect on outdoor recreational opportunities, whether they occur within "designated wilderness" or theme parks such as Disneyland.

Just as those "back to the earth" people from the 1960s Romano mentions, the "social media" crowds of the current era, will, in spite of themselves, at some point grow up, put on their big boy pants, and realize it ain't all about them. At that point many of them will realize that they'll have to be a bit more careful if they want their children to enjoy the same opportunities.

Certainly there will always be jackasses who crap in the middle of the trail, leave food on the ground for the bears, and cut down live trees - those idiots are not exclusive to the current generation of the "social media selfie" crowd.

I think if you ask any of the old farts on this site - like me, or Randy, or any number of others - we can all tell you stories about "the good ol' days" when NPS backcountry rangers dug the garbage pits for visitors and (as Randy loves to point out) the old "bash, burn, and bury" practice was commonplace.

Believe it or not, even Logan Paul will at some point have to grow up and join the real world.

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Bootpathguy
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PostFri Jul 24, 2020 7:13 pm 
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dixon wrote:
Animal Chin wrote:
I am tired of people posting about "A great place for solitude" and then telling one hundred plus thousand people where it is at.  One posting can turn a once great place into a crowded mess of people.

This ^^! WTA is also bad these days, 'trip reports' quickly devolve into a pi$$ing contest of who did the most gain, mileage etc. Apparently by posting a report the WTA app links it to that facebook page somehow. I'll never understand why someone posts a report of a quiet area and how they saw no people so therefore everyone MUST go now because this is the "best" place to socially distance. The very next day theres hoards of people and the cycle continues.

How many of these social media addicts would be doing stuff outdoors if there wasn't "credit" to be had? Probably next to none as noone there to see their "achievements".

Yes. Like the TML's" as I use to affectionately refer to this area. Been many times and every time I had it to myself. It's not even worth the thought of going there anymore.

http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8028484&highlight=thunder+mt+lakes+mtn+mountain

http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8021716

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Secret Agent Man
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PostSat Jul 25, 2020 10:49 am 
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dixon wrote:
I'm not really sure who else benefits other than corporations from getting more people outside

Who benefits from more people being outside? More people do! Hiking, climbing, camping, and other outdoor activities are great and people can have their lives enriched by being introduced to them. As frustrating as the crowded Stuart Lake TH parking lot is, everybody up there is a person getting fresh air and exercise, someone getting to be among the mountains and trees instead of around their phone and tv screens. The more people doing that, the better.

I am sympathetic to the selfish argument that “the wilderness is better if I have it all to myself” because it’s true, it is better. But let’s call that what it is - selfish and exclusionary. Everyone is selfish from time to time, but I’d prefer not to live my life that way too much if possible.
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Riverside Laker
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PostSat Jul 25, 2020 7:06 pm 
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Secret Agent Man wrote:
The more people doing that, the better.

The problem is that places are loved to death, and can turn into places nobody wants to visit.
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Cyclopath
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PostSat Jul 25, 2020 8:47 pm 
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Secret Agent Man wrote:
dixon wrote:
I'm not really sure who else benefits other than corporations from getting more people outside

Who benefits from more people being outside? More people do!

I agree with everything you wrote.  Also want to point out that if only a small handful of people hiked, we wouldn't have access roads to trails, except in places that needed that road anyway.  The ones we have exist because there's demand for them.
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Cyclopath
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PostSat Jul 25, 2020 8:48 pm 
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dixon wrote:
and neither do the generations of backcountry folk who have enjoyed solitude and exploring wild places for decades.

It's ok for other people to hike, too.  Even young ones.
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