[Chief Joseph]

Exactly, as you said “they will stop at nothing” so to me the only answer is education and enforcement, since they are not going to stop.

[Cyclopath]

[guibo]

Are any of us any better than the desperate attention seekers on WHAC? I concluded I wasn't and hung up my boots for good. We pretend we're rugged individualists in Nature, but WHAC forced me to admit that I'm just another foot soldier in an invading army whose way is paved by...actually, it's just paved. Minus the automobile, I'm just an idiot on a couch. Nice and all if I find a more remote option than the gazillionth visitor to the shores of [choose one: Blanca, Colchuck, Serene, Goat, etc. etc.] or [High Rock, Fremont, Pilchuck] lookout, but my motivations and impact are just the same. I'm just a validation junkie honnobe (that's a Honnold wannabe). The real solution is to stop maintaining the roads leading to the trailheads and stop maintaining the trails themselves. Put the really beautiful places an extra couple of miles out of reach and people will lose interest. I'm all about it.

[olderthanIusedtobe]

[Cyclopath]

[guibo]

[guibo]

[olderthanIusedtobe]

[slabbyd]

So much of the relatively easy access we have now is a result of economic conditions that no longer exist (substantial logging) or the FS attempting to minimize the extent of Wilderness Designations 40+ years ago by pushing roads up remote valleys. I don't see why that level of access should be considered sacrosanct and it seems long term the economic viability of maintaining this many long, long damage-prone roads simply for recreation isn't feasible. Off 542 for example Glacier Creek Road is one slump away from being permanently destroyed (~3 miles in). Canyon Creek Road behind Church Mountain (recently reopened after a major 2+ year repair effort) now has two spots higher up that look ready to go completely (one slump in road and another culvert blowout). But again and again I'm amazed at what the FS does manage to pull of regarding road repair. So maybe my pessimism on access isn't justified, but I'm ok with it. edit...one example I think of is the Squire Creek Road. I can recall driving to the actual TH. Now it seems every couple years the road end is getting pushed further and further back by successive landslides and washouts without any thought to road restoration. Seems like only a matter of time before many other secondary roads go this route (Sunshine Mine TH comes to mind) Might not hurt to extend the walk to Blanca Lake these days.... LOL

[guibo]

[olderthanIusedtobe]

Okay, but again what happens if the FS stops repairing roads? There are trails that are right off of highways, and I can't really see the NPs discontinuing road repairs. People aren't going to quit hiking. If you think trails are uncomfortably crowded now...it would get SOOOO much worse on the trails that remained easily accessible. This is really not a good option I don't think.

[olderthanIusedtobe]

Oops, I was repying to slabbyd, not guibo's most recent post. Honestly I haven't been hiking much this year. I've already generally avoided west side of I-90 in recent years. Mountain Loop Highway is my nearest go to area, I'm sure that's slammed. I don't love the crowds, but I really, really don't like the idea of taking away options from everybody.

[slabbyd]

I think anyone who's lived in Western Washington for more than...10 years?...is like the proverbial frog in the pot of boiling water. This is now a major megalopolis. Solitude and wilderness are fleeting concepts. If you find it, it's probably an illusion. The U.S. is still a big big country and if you get in your car and head SE there's like an 800 mile stretch of nothing until you hit Salt Lake City. So if wilderness solitude is what we need probably best to pack up and move east old man (and no I don't mean Mazama). Of course I can't convince my wife to that! This post has probably run it's course. Can we start one about the crazy ham-fisted moderation on WH&C?

[Snuffy]

[guibo]