[altasnob]

97% of the park was designated as wilderness in 1988. For those who want trams or parking garages built within the park, it would not be possible without Congress removing these areas from Mt. Rainier Wilderness. If you want to see what part of the park is not wilderness, see page 68 of this big document. Basically, everything in the park is wilderness except the roads, parking lots, structures, and buffers around those areas. So any new parking will need to be on newly acquired private property outside the park. IMO, this is a good thing as the rest of the park is too pristine to mow down trees for parking lots or trams.

[altasnob]

[Brian R]

Reopening Westside Road to Klapatche Point would relieve some of the pressure too. When it closed almost 30 years ago, close to a dozen great family-friendly day hikes became multi-day events.

[slabbyd]

[Randito]

[Ski]

[Ski]

I've noted here previously regarding this issue: In August and September of 1997, I interviewed every business owner along WA-706 (between Elbe and the Nisqually entrance) as well as every business owner along WA-165 between Buckley and Carbonado. All of them told me pretty much the same story: They survive on the business during the peak season between mid-June and mid-September. The other nine months of the year they cinch up their belts and hold on by their fingernails. The "Wild Berry" restaurant at Ashford has changed ownership at least three times during the last 23 years. With all of the convention centers, casinos, and five-star hotels that have been constructed up and down the I-5 corridor, particularly those in Tacoma, what is the amount of business projected by the people pushing this "Park Junction Resort" 50 miles from downtown Tacoma, most of which is accessible only via a windy two-lane blacktop highway? When's the last time you were at the Quinault Tribe's resort and casino just north of Ocean Shores? Did you have a hard time finding a place to park? Again, hopefully they'll kill once and for all this hare-brained scheme to rebuild Disneyland out in the middle of nowhere and get plugged back in to reality.

[altasnob]

You make good points Ski. Congestion is limited to a three month period, and then in that three month period, there are crowded days, and not so crowded days. So I would agree the costs of implementing a shuttle service with an outside the park parking lot may not pencil out. I don't have stats but my guess is Zion (and even Yosemite) see their visitors more evenly distributed throughout the year than MRNP, so shuttles make more sense in those locations. And again, Zion did not need to purchase land and build a parking lot for their shuttle (parking lot was already there within the park). I like Cyclopath's idea of allocating a very small amount of time to road bikers. But this would require an outside the park parking lot for the road bikers to park their car. So not sure how that would be possible. Maybe close the road from Longmire to Paradise every fourth Sunday until 11 am. Road bikers (and hikers) could then park at Longmire before then and bike (or hike) up. Downside of this is Longmire parking lot would probably reach capacity by 9 am. The only other low cost thing I can think of is requiring permits to travel to Paradise during the busy season. I go to Paradise year round, exclusively on weekends. During the busy season, if you know what you are getting yourself into, it can be managed. Just need to be at the gate prior to 9 am or after 4 pm. If they do require permits, it would be nice if they allowed people to travel without permits prior to 9 am and after 4 pm (because congestion is not much of an issue at these times). This would push the congestion earlier, and later, to some extent, but I don't think too much because a lot of people are incapable of getting to the park early (or late).

[Randito]

Given the number of SNAFUs with the MORA NPS reservation system attempting to process a few hundred wilderness camp reservations per year and the abandonment of the system after investing mucho simelions, the idea of the NPS creating a system that effectively handles many thousands of day use reservations per year is laughable.

[mb]

yosemite is using a reservation system right now. even for people who want to cross the park. (It's the fastest route to the eastern sierra for much of california; i think they may have some sort of 'locals only' pass for those who are most affected). there's also a bus which connects the central valley and the eastern sierra to yosemite. not sure how well it's acutally working. a few other NPs now have similar systems too. personally i'm not a fan of such systems, but understand why they may need to exist.

[rossb]

It wouldn't be cheap, it wouldn't run all year, most of the time the parking lot would be empty, but a shuttle system during the peak summer period is the best solution. It is worth noting that the Zion Canyon shuttle system doesn't run year round either. Some of the Yosemite shuttles only work in summer (leaving the skiers to drive to the trailhead). But the devil is in the details. The shuttle needs to run frequently and run all day long. It would be a very long walk out. Maybe they could stash a few bikes at the top, and charge to rent them (for the late night ride out). Speaking of which, in Zion you are allowed to bike your way up the canyon. I'm sure it would be the same. Riding up a road where professional drivers occasionally pass you is a lot better than riding where amateur drivers are constantly flying by (and unable to move into the other lane because of cars going the other way). There are lots of advantages to having a mandatory shuttle system. It makes one-way trips really easy (this is definitely the case in areas where they allow both, like Glacier). It has a natural limiting effect on use. If you arrive during the peak period, you have to wait to get on the bus. It allows officials to explain the basic wilderness ethic, that is clearly missing from many visitors. Don't pick the flowers. Don't feed the animals. Stay on the trail. Other than cost, I don't see much of a downside. I guess there is some environmental damage with a large parking lot at the bottom, but that is trivial in the grand scheme of things (while I wrote this someone replaced a nice tree farm with a subdivision). A shuttle is the way to go -- they just have to find the money.

[Stefan]

Shuttle on weekends only during the high peak times from June to September and only from 8:00am to 5:00pm. After that....cars can go as they please. Some cars.....during those times. But it will be on limit...where something or someone counts the cars...and then coordination with the Paradise entrances. Kind of like those large car parks where they count cars.

[nickmtn]

I would like to see some of the views and scenery from this section of road relocated to some of the well known North Bend trails, such as Mount Si and Mailbox Peak. While these trails have great views at the top, there isn't much to look at on your way up!

[altasnob]

Recent article says 79% of all Zion entry fees go to the shuttle (maybe as low as 65%) and Zion is in need of entire new shuttle fleet with no money to pay for it. When I was going to Zion regularly when I lived in Utah years ago there was no shuttle in the winter. But on my last trip there in mid November (a time when previously there was no shuttle) the place was packed and shuttle was mandatory (this was 2016). Not sure if shuttle is running in December to March, but I wouldn't be surprised if increased visits is necessitating it. And again, Zion's giant shuttle parking lots are the same giant parking lots at the main visitor center. Rainier is different in that the main visitor center is at the end of the road (not the beginning like Zion). If you had a shuttle from Nisqually Gate to Paradise, what do you do about Stevens Canyon? Still let people drive up from that side? Stevens Canyon is the closest access to Paradise for people from Packwood, Yakima, and everyone east of Yakima (maybe Enumclaw too).

[Ski]