[BigBrunyon]

Complete anarchy in the forest lands!! People ridin' dirty with no forest pass!! No rules!! No one knows what the deal is!!! You have to be tough to survive a hike in such conditions!

[Chief Joseph]

It's not a big deal since 95-98% of the people pay, only us "Elitists" know better.....O' and a few Separatists and Miscreants who just never pay.

[Cyclopath]

[xrp]

[Randito]

[water]

[xrp]

[Chief Joseph]

[altasnob]

The Forest Service publishes information on how NWFP money is used each year. The biggest expenditure category is "repair and maintenance" followed by "visitor services" and then "law enforcement." The forest service indicates some of the revenue is used to match for grant funds (for instance, Washington State Recreation and Conservation Office offers grants and the Forest Service is able to obtain funds form this agency if they can match the grant). My guess is the puppet show near Bend is funded by something like this. And the federal law that allows collection of fees also requires at least 80% of the revenue collected is to be retained and used at the site where it was generated. So 80% of the money that gets deposited in the box at Lake Ingalls must be spent at that location. Not sure how it works for people like me who buy a National Parks pass each year, which also includes a NWFP. Personally, I wish we had a more progressive state and federal taxation system with less loop holes so we wouldn't need to rely on things like the NWFP to fund the Forest Service.

[Randito]

Personally, I'm OK with paying for the America the Beautiful / NWF pass even if all I get from it is a ranger patrolling the parking lot periodically to check for passes properly displayed. Even that level of patrolling I think discourages trailhead burglers at least a tiny bit.

[Sculpin]

It happened again. I drove to the Mineral Creek trailhead, no "fee area" signs. The lot was full, about half the cars had a pass. Pulled mine out and discovered it expired last month. Darn. Loaded up and met a ranger in the parking lot. He made sure I had a free Alpine Lakes permit, but never mentioned parking passes. There are no amenities at this trailhead.

[altasnob]

For any parking permit law, the government must put you on notice that a permit is required. So if there is no sign indicating a fee is required, or the fee required sign is covered up (which seems to be the case in most places this summer) you don't need a permit.

[Randito]

[Ski]

^ Generally the municipal ordinances that deal with that parking offense call for 5 feet of clearance on either side of the driveway opening. I had a girlfriend long ago who had cars towed at least twice a week that were blocking her driveway entrance about half a block away from Alki Avenue. Others, off the top of my head, which don't require signage: parking too far away from the curb, or not having the wheels pointed the right way when parallel parking on a hill.

[altasnob]

I said "parking permit law" not parking law. I can think of no situation where a parking permit is required to park, like the NWFP, where the government is relieved of their burden to put the citizen on notice that a permit is required. But for general parking laws, you are correct. A person is presumed to know all of the parking laws in the nation, and all of the traffic laws in the nation. And for all crimes and civil infractions, ignorance of the law is not a defense.