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stever
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PostThu Sep 10, 2020 6:21 am 
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https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/recreation-becomes-wreckreation-as-careless-outdoor-adventures-turn-destructive-spark-wildfires/
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timberghost
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PostThu Sep 10, 2020 6:37 am 
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This line says it all!!!
We are experiencing people who dont normally go outdoors
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rbuzby
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PostThu Sep 10, 2020 8:14 am 
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We can't really "suppress" visitorship (other than permit systems in some places)  so we are stuck with having to educate people, to try to get them on our side of things.  There is a really strong case to be made for not spreading trash around and not allowing piles of feces to accumulate, so I think most people will be receptive to the message.

Yes, it should be obvious, but for whatever reason, to many hiking naifs, throwing every bit of trash on the ground at your campsite seems like an ok thing to do. Until they get educated.

Suppression would be the way to go if we didn't have a valid argument behind us, but we do in this case.  We can't hide the mountains, but we can get people to agree with a basic way of behaving, if it makes sense to them. There's a parallel here with something, but I can't quite put my finger on it.  Might be off topic so I wont even try.
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Chief Joseph
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PostThu Sep 10, 2020 8:50 am 
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"The 'CURE' is worse than the Disease".

--------------
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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thunderhead
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PostThu Sep 10, 2020 9:20 am 
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"We can't really "suppress" visitorship"

Of course we can.  Stop advertising.  Increase prices.  And by increasing prices we get more rangers, education funds, etc.  Win win.
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seattlenativemike
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PostThu Sep 10, 2020 10:28 am 
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volunteer trail educators in exchange for camping permits
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InFlight
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PostThu Sep 10, 2020 10:46 am 
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You have an entire class of people that believe a camp-fire is required for camping.  Even if it's 90 degrees in the middle of the day in a dry fire prone area.  Most of these menaces belong only in established campsites with fire rings; but with those mostly closed there is now more new hazards.

The ethics of leave no trace is simply not universally adopted by every outdoor user.  No amount of education, permits or rangers will fix that.

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I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately...  ― Henry David Thoreau
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rbuzby
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PostThu Sep 10, 2020 11:14 am 
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InFlight wrote:
The ethics of leave no trace is simply not universally adopted by every outdoor user. No amount of education, permits or rangers will fix that.

I do think we can get most people to stop being careless with trash and poop in the mountains.  The other apsects of LNT, are not even supported by everyone on this website, so I have to agree that we wont get every outdoor user on board with LNT.  But the most basic stuff, I think we can change some people's behavior on.
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Stefan
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PostThu Sep 10, 2020 11:15 am 
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rbuzby wrote:
so we are stuck with having to educate people

I don't think education works.  You can talk till your blue into face to many of these people.   The "non outdoorsy folk" .  Don't really care.  Seriously.  You can not fix desire.  No matter how much you try to educate people.

I see it all the time:
People who throw trash on the sidewalks
Cigarette people throwing live cigarettes out their windows
Overweight people buying a bunch of processed food at the store
cutting down rainforests so they can sell money for timber
and me:  still driving a carbon producing car.

IMO.  Its not personal education.  Its personal passion for whatever it may be.  In this case we would like people to have passion/desire leading to the care of the outdoors.  I already think they are educated.  Many people just do not care.

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Art is an adventure.
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Cyclopath
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PostThu Sep 10, 2020 11:56 am 
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Education definitely works.  When I first started I did some things wrong, then I learned, now I don't do them.  I bet everybody on this site has the same story, none of us were just born with this knowledge.
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pula58
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PostThu Sep 10, 2020 7:13 pm 
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InFlight wrote:
You have an entire class of people that believe a camp-fire is required for camping.  Even if it's 90 degrees in the middle of the day in a dry fire prone area.  Most of these menaces belong only in established campsites with fire rings; but with those mostly closed there is now more new hazards.

The ethics of leave no trace is simply not universally adopted by every outdoor user.  No amount of education, permits or rangers will fix that.

Yep.
Please people., get a down jacket and skip the fires.
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Canyon1
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PostFri Sep 11, 2020 8:40 am 
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Jim Morrison of "The Doors" said it well. There is no saving us now.

"What have they done to the earth?
What have they done to our fair sister?
Ravaged and plundered and ripped her and bit her
Stuck her with knives in the side of the dawn
And tied her with fences and dragged her down"

First Rock concert I attended many years past. dizzy.gif
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xrp
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PostFri Sep 11, 2020 9:01 am 
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Chief Joseph wrote:
"The 'CURE' is worse than the Disease".

Yep. So many normal recreational activities are closed. Most humans, by nature, are restless and want to be doing something. Park closed? Pool closed? Sports closed? It's summer, let's go outdoors! More people than ever using the outdoors, overloading the capacity.
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Sky Hiker
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PostFri Sep 11, 2020 9:37 am 
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Education. People don't get up from there couch go krap in the kitchen, but they will10 ft from a campsite. When it says no campfires except in designated camp areas it doesn't mean make your own campsite and build a fires. Pick up your trash do you throw litter on the floor at home?
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Chief Joseph
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PostFri Sep 11, 2020 9:46 am 
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I think that education works in some cases, but others will never change simply because they don't care, so the above posters are both right and both wrong...imo of course. Much like a classroom, some learn and some don't.

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Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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