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Gimpilator
infinity/21M
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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Location: Edmonds, WA |
I didn't see a recent thread about this. Bummed to hear they felt the need to exterminate the last ones (see video).
video link
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timberghost
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Joined: 06 Dec 2011
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Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
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Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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 Mon May 24, 2021 9:03 am |
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| Gimpilator wrote: | | Bummed to hear they felt the need to exterminate the last ones |
Should have been done long ago. The goats were dumped onto the Olympic Peninsula in the 1920s for the express purpose of being hunted.
Only long after the issues of the decimation of threatened endemic species of flora were raised, and the death of Robert Boardman, did the National Park Service get their heads out of their asses and deal with the issue.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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coldrain108
Thundering Herd
Joined: 05 Aug 2010
Posts: 1858 | TRs | Pics
Location: somewhere over the rainbow |
Since I have no expectations of forgiveness, I don't do it in the first place. That loop hole needs to be closed to everyone.
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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
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Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
The Olympics had a large population of wolves which were exterminated in the early 20th century which would have been a natural predator.
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
 Mountainpines
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
Mountainpines
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RodF
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Joined: 01 Sep 2007
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RodF
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Mon May 24, 2021 1:48 pm |
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| Malachai Constant wrote: | | The Olympics had a large population of wolves which were exterminated in the early 20th century which would have been a natural predator. |
In Yellowstone, concurrent with the reintroduction and increase in grey wolf population, the elk population dropped by half, while the mountain goat population tripled. These effects of the strong prey preference of wolves for elk, and not for mountain goats, are reported in P. J. White, R. A. Garrott, "Yellowstone's ungulates after wolves - Expectations, realizations, and predictions", Biological Conservation 125(2):141-152.
| Ski wrote: | | Only long after the issues of the decimation of threatened endemic species of flora were raised... |
...and dismissed. A review by non-NPS scientists (Noss et al. 2000) concluded: "available data are insufficient to establish that mountain goats are causing significant damage to vegetation, harming rare plant populations, or are otherwise having deleterious impacts on the natural system."
- Noss, R.F., R. Graham, D.R. McCullough, F.L. Ramsey, J. Seavey, C. Whitlock, and M.P. Williams. 2000. Review of scientific material relevant to the occurrence, ecosystem role, and tested management options for mountain goats in Olympic National Park. Conservation Biology Institute Unpublished Report, Corvallis, Oregon, page iv. See NPS, A Comprehensive Review of National Park Service Ungulate Management (2014), page 39.
However, dismissal of inconvenient scientific findings in political decisions is far from unprecedented (witness current debates over vaccination, climate change, green new deal, etc.).
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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brineal
Snarky Master
Joined: 30 Oct 2017
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brineal
Snarky Master
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Mon May 24, 2021 2:11 pm |
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| Malachai Constant wrote: | | The Olympics had a large population of wolves which were exterminated in the early 20th century which would have been a natural predator. |
A natural solution to a non-natural species. How many dollars for wildlife conservation and management could have been generated by raffle sales? Instead, the feel-good solution was to pay for this with "someone's" money.
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
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Mon May 24, 2021 2:39 pm |
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It makes sense that wolves would prefer other prey, since mountain goats are usually found in the high alpine meadows and higher; not really wolf territory; and even if the wolves got up to the alpine meadows, the goats could easily escape them with their cliff-hopping habits. Wolves learn what's not worth the effort.
I suspect the main reason the FS and NPS didn't totally exterminate them decades ago was due to public sentiment and the expected uproar from seeing snipers in helicopters picking off goats in a National Park. The huge increase in park visitors likely contributed to more (and more aggressive) goat encounters, and the hiker death mentioned earlier probably tipped their hand.
I think back to my own naivite when I first began visiting Lake Constance and environs back in the early 80's. Not a lot of human visitation back then, compared to now. You could always count on some kind of goat "visitation" at the lake. One time on a day hike, I fell asleep after lunch and woke to a goat nibbling my pack straps. During overnights, I'd sometimes hear them hoofing about in the night. On one trip, a goat followed me on the hike out on the upper trail, maybe hoping I'd stop to pee. Another time I encountered a nanny & kid at the lake; got some amazing photos. In retrospect, I probably got a little too close. Most times I sat and observed, but didn't try to approach, and it never occurred to me to fear them. Perhaps my nonchalance and not doing stuff to try to scare them away kept them mellow. But that's probably what Timothy Treadwell thought about those bears too, and it worked, until it didn't. 
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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Location: North Dakota |
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
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Mon May 24, 2021 3:58 pm |
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| Ski wrote: | | Gimpilator wrote: | | Bummed to hear they felt the need to exterminate the last ones |
Should have been done long ago. The goats were dumped onto the Olympic Peninsula in the 1920s for the express purpose of being hunted.
Only long after the issues of the decimation of threatened endemic species of flora were raised, and the death of Robert Boardman, did the National Park Service get their heads out of their asses and deal with the issue. |
Yes, what he said!
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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kitya
Fortune Cookie
Joined: 15 Mar 2010
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kitya
Fortune Cookie
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Mon May 24, 2021 4:08 pm |
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I'm sure humans have far more impact in regards with the issues of the decimation of threatened endemic species of flora. And imagine how many dollars could be raised if we just had a raffle to kill some loggers and farmers!
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Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12824 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Mon May 24, 2021 6:01 pm |
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| Malachai Constant wrote: | | The Olympics had a large population of wolves which were exterminated in the early 20th century which would have been a natural predator. |
The Olympic Peninsula had a native population of what is believed to have been a smaller wolf - the "Olympic Wolf" (according to Robert L. Wood.)
As to the now extirpated wolf population of the Olympic Peninsula having been "large", I'd posit that's something of a stretch. (refer to Rod's comments above.)
Moreover, as noted, the wolf prefers easier prey (e.g., domestic cattle and sheep.) Mountain Goats would have more than likely posed more of a challenge to the wolf, as they're simply not built to negotiate the sort of terrain that the goats call home. (again, refer to Rod's comments above, as well as the preliminary studies done over a decade ago on the goat population on the Olympic Peninsula.)
Supposedly, per anecdotal reports (as stated in one of ONP's own papers) the last breeding pair of wolves on the Olympic Peninsula was sighted in the upper Queets valley in 1929.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 2456 | TRs | Pics
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
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Mon May 24, 2021 6:02 pm |
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| kitya wrote: | | And imagine how many dollars could be raised if we just had a raffle to kill some loggers and farmers! |
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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