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puzzlr
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PostWed Nov 18, 2020 8:10 pm 
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The most recent fatality on Granite was on the winter route - Doug Walker in Jan 2016. He had been up Granite dozens of times in all seasons.

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rossb
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PostWed Nov 18, 2020 8:24 pm 
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puzzlr wrote:
The most recent fatality on Granite was on the winter route - Doug Walker in Jan 2016.

That is incorrect. He deviated from the winter route, and went climbers right (east). No one is really sure why he did that, including the rest of his party.

That misses the point. No one is saying that Granite is perfectly safe. They are saying that the winter route is safer than the summer route when there is avalanche hazard. I don't know anyone -- other than perhaps catsp -- who believes otherwise.
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Randito
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PostWed Nov 18, 2020 8:42 pm 
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puzzlr wrote:
The most recent fatality on Granite was on the winter route - Doug Walker in Jan 2016. He had been up Granite dozens of times in all seasons.

This incident?

https://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/acc/acc_report.php?acc_id=578&accfm=rep

Even with experience and good route selection, in some conditions, staying out of snow covered mountains is the only way to avoid avalanche hazard.
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kitya
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PostWed Nov 18, 2020 9:42 pm 
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catsp wrote:
I might be mistaken, but IIRC most of the fatalities (not just the 12/31/15 fatality) have occurred with people on or around the winter route, and not the summer.

That could be simply because more people take winter route in winter. You cannot judge the danger of a route simply by the number of incidents. For example the vast majority of all Sar calls in king county come from Mount Si and the Mailbox Peak. However they are definitely not the most dangerous mountains in King County. They are simply most popular. Granite has a similar problem.
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RossJames
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PostWed Nov 18, 2020 11:38 pm 
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If it wasnt for you guys I don't think I would have considered Tusk O'Granite or Catherine, which are currently up at the top of the list. I havent done either so that would be nice. Ones I'm familiar with that are still on the longer list being Margaret and Hex.
Different area, Persis, I'm curious about. Tried getting a hold of the ranger station to ask about the road to the trailhead. Couldnt get through this afternoon.
Which im also looking at the road to Catherine and wondering if any of that will be drivable.
anyway, just an update if anyone was curious

I think I like that word. curious 😂
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kitya
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PostWed Nov 18, 2020 11:46 pm 
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I have gone up to Persis many years ago, in winter. It is wooded and safe, but there is a long road walk involved. The road is not drivable even in summer, unless you have a permit - it is on private land. Philadelphia mountain nearby is a great fun snowshoe in winter, safe, but you can hear avalanches coming off index.
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RossJames
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PostThu Nov 19, 2020 2:04 pm 
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kitya wrote:
there is a long road walk involved. The road is not drivable even in summer, unless you have a permit - it is on private land

Heya Kitya
Do you mean that one would have to start just off of Hwy 2 down at 600' elevation? I found some tracks that start from FSD6220 after driving Hancock Mainline around 2500'. Maybe about 5 miles of road from the highway. But you might be saying that we would have to walk that 5 miles both ways?
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kitya
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PostThu Nov 19, 2020 2:17 pm 
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RossJames wrote:
Heya Kitya
Do you mean that one would have to start just off of Hwy 2 down at 600' elevation? I found some tracks that start from FSD6220 after driving Hancock Mainline around 2500'. Maybe about 5 miles of road from the highway. But you might be saying that we would have to walk that 5 miles both ways?

Unfortunately, unless you purchase the permit, you have to start just off Hwy 2 at the start of NF-6200. The road is usually gated. Sometimes it is not gated, but if you don't have the key you can get locked in and this will be a bigger problem.

I myself was able to drive to the trailhead, but that was 7 years ago and at that time the road was kept open for everyone.

Right now if you want to drive all the way to the trailhead at 2800 ft you will have to purchase motorized permit - https://recreation.weyerhaeuser.com/Permits

it is very expensive and very limited. As far as I know you can still legally walk/bike the road without buying a permit, but it will add 6 miles each way and it is very sad active logging road that is not fun to walk.
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rossb
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PostThu Nov 19, 2020 2:57 pm 
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catsp wrote:

But Im not in any way advocating for the summer route. Mostly I simply question the general assertion that the winter route is less risky. (Is safer really the term we want to use here?) Id think its very dependent on the conditions at the particular time, particularly since it seems that the risks posed by each route are actually pretty different.

Less risky = safer, by my definition, but if it makes you more comfortable, I'll use your terminology.

The winter route follows the ridge. This tends to be windswept, and contain less snow. The summer route traverses a big gully that typically has lots of snow, and very little vegetation (an obvious avalanche chute). To quote Fred Beckey:

In winter or spring there may be avalanche danger in the gully at 4000 ft., where the trail veers E; avoid this situation by hiking up Granite's but easy SW ridge.

No one is saying the winter route has no risk -- of course it does. Nor is anyone saying the winter route in winter is less risky than the summer route in summer. We are saying that the winter route in winter is less risky than the summer route in winter.
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Bootpathguy
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PostThu Nov 19, 2020 3:14 pm 
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kitya wrote:
RossJames wrote:
Heya Kitya
Do you mean that one would have to start just off of Hwy 2 down at 600' elevation? I found some tracks that start from FSD6220 after driving Hancock Mainline around 2500'. Maybe about 5 miles of road from the highway. But you might be saying that we would have to walk that 5 miles both ways?

Unfortunately, unless you purchase the permit, you have to start just off Hwy 2 at the start of NF-6200. The road is usually gated. Sometimes it is not gated, but if you don't have the key you can get locked in and this will be a bigger problem.

I myself was able to drive to the trailhead, but that was 7 years ago and at that time the road was kept open for everyone.

Right now if you want to drive all the way to the trailhead at 2800 ft you will have to purchase motorized permit - https://recreation.weyerhaeuser.com/Permits

it is very expensive and very limited. As far as I know you can still legally walk/bike the road without buying a permit, but it will add 6 miles each way and it is very sad active logging road that is not fun to walk.

Conditions early December 2017

http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8026197

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Experience is what'cha get, when you get what'cha don't want
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RossJames
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PostFri Nov 20, 2020 1:39 am 
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Bootpathguy wrote:
Conditions early December 2017

http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8026197

Haha thanks for the link to your report. Hope we don't have to butthole the whole way to west granite and back this weekend
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