Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge - maybe not
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gb
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PostMon Dec 07, 2020 6:36 am 
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Bank America announces this: Bank America joins other US banks in saying no
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Brian R
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PostMon Dec 07, 2020 10:36 pm 
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However noble the goal, do we really want banks making public/environmental policy? Before you answer, remember these are the same folks who launder tens of billions in narco-trafficking money--and, until very recently, practiced red-lining.
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gb
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PostTue Dec 08, 2020 5:29 am 
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Brian R wrote:
However noble the goal, do we really want banks making public/environmental policy? Before you answer, remember these are the same folks who launder tens of billions in narco-trafficking money--and, until very recently, practiced red-lining.

If the government made forward looking decisions, steps like this reflecting a moral compass environmentally wouldn't be necessary.
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altasnob
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PostTue Dec 08, 2020 8:16 am 
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You could argue that big banks are not trying to dictate environmental policy but just making shrewd business decisions that ultimately helps their bottom line. The negative publicity of financing drilling in ANWR could offset any profits they derive from offering the financing.

The auction is set to take place on January 6. All 1.6 million acres in the coastal plain of ANWR will be available to auction. The minimum bid is $25 per acre. Oil companies have been silent on whether they will bid or not. I wonder if there really is not a lot of interest some altruistic billionaire could come in and bid the minimum bid on the entire thing (cost of $40 million) and ensure preservation by then refusing to exercise their right to drill.

Sheenjek River, Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
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Brian R
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PostTue Dec 08, 2020 11:04 am 
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gb wrote:
Brian R wrote:
However noble the goal, do we really want banks making public/environmental policy? Before you answer, remember these are the same folks who launder tens of billions in narco-trafficking money--and, until very recently, practiced red-lining.

If the government made forward looking decisions, steps like this reflecting a moral compass environmentally wouldn't be necessary.

You mean the government that we elect? or the banking execs appointed by wealthy shareholders? And since when have banks ever exercised a moral compass?
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PostTue Dec 08, 2020 12:25 pm 
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A banker is a man who loans you an umbrella when the sun is shining, and then asks for it back when it starts raining.

Banks have nothing resembling in any way any "moral compass". Banks care about the money, and that's it. Nothing else in this universe is of any concern to them other than money.

File a bankruptcy due to medical bills if you don't believe me.

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Cyclopath
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PostTue Dec 08, 2020 12:39 pm 
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Brian R wrote:
However noble the goal, do we really want banks making public/environmental policy? Before you answer, remember these are the same folks who launder tens of billions in narco-trafficking money--and, until very recently, practiced red-lining.

I don't think the fact that BofA recognizes this as toxic means banks will start writing policy.
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Malachai Constant
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PostTue Dec 08, 2020 12:42 pm 
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Banks do not have a moral compass but they have a need for good public relations. If they see a highly unpopular governmental decision that they can render harmless by their loan policies they may well do so. This is especially true if it can be done without hazards to themselves. In this case it is a decision made by a lame duck administration heading out the door. In this case oil drilling loans are hazardous and subject to litigation and a hostile incoming administration. In addition oil is currently experiencing a glut with future demand likely to decline due to renewable alternative sources coming on line. Drilling in the arctic is expensive compared to opening a tap in the Mideast. They have the advantage of calling a sound business decision their dedication to the public interest.

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gb
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PostTue Dec 08, 2020 1:58 pm 
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Malachai Constant wrote:
Banks do not have a moral compass but they have a need for good public relations. If they see a highly unpopular governmental decision that they can render harmless by their loan policies they may well do so. This is especially true if it can be done without hazards to themselves. In this case it is a decision made by a lame duck administration heading out the door. In this case oil drilling loans are hazardous and subject to litigation and a hostile incoming administration. In addition oil is currently experiencing a glut with future demand likely to decline due to renewable alternative sources coming on line. Drilling in the arctic is expensive compared to opening a tap in the Mideast. They have the advantage of calling a sound business decision their dedication to the public interest.

Very good points. Obviously corporate/business morality in many cases is directly related to their perception of generating public goodwill. This lame lame duck "policy" clearly does not represent the interests of most Americans. Polls would probably show this at about 70% - a guess - but numbers should be out there.
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Pyrites
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PostTue Dec 08, 2020 7:07 pm 
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Iím not sure how much of the bankís statement of policy is not just long term financial caution. In what year would they receive positive return on any conjectured loans?

Financial institutions are becoming concern with stranded assets.
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Anne Elk
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PostTue Dec 08, 2020 9:24 pm 
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I figured the whole thing would get keboshed by a lawsuit; which by the time things got rolling in court, the Biden Administration would be in office.

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Brian R
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PostWed Dec 09, 2020 10:53 pm 
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gb wrote:
This lame lame duck "policy" clearly does not represent the interests of most Americans.

Hmmmmm. Doesn't this depend on which interest is polled at any given moment, ergo, standing on a pristine unspoiled landscape vs pumping gas at $5 or more per gallon? Of course, you and I believe the former is more important--but others, who buy their gas five or ten bucks at a time, might not. It's why we have public debates.

The lame duck issue is interesting and, just like above, cuts both ways. Prime example, The Antiquities Act is a very popular tool for lame duck Presidents to memorialize themselves in a decidedly undemocratic way--cheered on by the same environmentalists who condemn actions like Trump's ANWR giveaway. All lame duck Presidents ought to have their power severely curtailed IMO.
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Anne Elk
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PostThu Dec 10, 2020 1:32 am 
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Brian R wrote:
Doesn't this depend on which interest is polled at any given moment, ergo, standing on a pristine unspoiled landscape vs pumping gas at $5 or more per gallon? ... It's why we have public debates.

The lame duck issue is interesting and, just like above, cuts both ways. Prime example, The Antiquities Act is a very popular tool for lame duck Presidents to memorialize themselves in a decidedly undemocratic way--cheered on by the same environmentalists who condemn actions like Trump's ANWR giveaway. All lame duck Presidents ought to have their power severely curtailed IMO.

I agree in principle on your first point, Brian, although I haven't seen any reports recently that we're in danger of hitting $5/gal gas without ANWR oil. Public debate is always good but in this one instance I don't think drilling in ANWR is a debatable point - for once, just once, the big oil boys should be told no.  I can't think of any other instance where they haven't always gotten what they wanted, unless the congressional delegations of CA, OR & WA were successful in routing Ryan Zinke's attempt to open 90 percent of the countryís outer continental shelf to oil and gas leasing.

Totally agree about reining in the power of lame duck presidents  - or potential lame ducks just before an election - especially when it comes to filling SCOTUS vacancies.  wink.gif

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gb
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PostThu Dec 10, 2020 5:16 am 
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Cyclopath
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PostThu Dec 10, 2020 10:00 pm 
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We're not facing a choice between $5 gas or preserving vital habitat and wilderness.  That's a false dichotomy.

What some presidents have done at the ends of their terms has nothing to do with Bank of America choosing how they want to run their business.

The public can debate this all they want but BofA has the right to not issue loans that would be toxic to their business no matter what Bubba and Bubbette say in their debates.
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Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge - maybe not
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