[altasnob]

Yes, other non-Alterra ski areas operating on National Forests have recently started charging for parking. So I don't credit Alterra exclusively for coming up with this pay for parking idea. I have read rumors of Mt. Baker starting to charge non-ticket buyers for parking because every year there are more and more backcountry skiers there. And you know Vail/Stevens is looking at Crystal with watchful eyes. Paying for parking at Alta, Snowbird, and Jackson Hole is all a relatively new thing. I think Alta's parking lots, like Crystal, are on Forest Service land. Snowbird leases some of their land from the Forest Service but I know they own some of the land as well (old mining claims they purchased). I think most people would have no problem paying something like $5 to $10 a day to park. Or an annual snow park for, say, $30. That's what you have to pay the government to park at Oregon ski areas (government snow park required). What I don't like about Crystal's plan is I don't trust them (Alterra). They have come up with a brilliant revenue generating scheme. And they will use that scheme to encourage people to purchase their most expensive products (season passes). And they will tell people it's all about reducing congestion and paying for the bus but their books aren't open to the public (so how do we know they are telling the truth). The fact they charge for parking at the end of the season when it isn't busy and the bus is not running makes me doubt their honesty. There are National Forest trailheads that start in Crystal's leased parking lots that pre-date Crystal ski area. What happens when Crystal decides to start charging for parking in the summer as well (I don't think there is anything, legally, preventing them from doing this). Paid parking up there in the summer doesn't seem that far fetched once the hotel and zip line course is built. I've contacted the Forest Service with my concerns and I would encourage others as well. This is a new development and I would like to see more discussion (news articles, law review articles, ect) of the concept of private companies charging people to park on Forest Service land. I don't expect the Forest Service to step in and stop Crystal from doing this. But the more people who voice their concerns the better chance the Forest Service does actually put in some limitations on charging for parking when it is time for Crystal to renew their permit in 2032.

[kw]

[altasnob]

Sorry, I meant Solitude, not Snowbasin.

[Randito]

Why do Americans think they have a god given right to free parking. Even in the summer you need a parking pass to park at USFS trailheads. The fee is modest, $30 per year. Having to pay more to park in the winter in a location that would have many feet of snow without plowing seems reasonable to me.

[altasnob]

I have no problem paying the government for parking on government land. And I have no problem paying the fee the government determines is appropriate because I know public record laws and general democratic principles allow the public to audit the government's decision. What I don't like is the government leasing out the public's land to a private company and giving that private company carte blanche to charge whatever they want for parking to whomever they want. Here's examples of what various governments charge for parking on government land: Oregon Snow Park: annual $25, daily $4 NW Forest Pass: annual $30 Discover Pass: annual $35, daily $11.50 If you wanted to go to Crystal today (Saturday) to lift ski, back country ski, snow shoe, or hike on government land and were traveling with less than four people you would pay $30 to park for the single day with no annual option. That's $30 to park on the public's land and to recreate on the public's land. That $30 goes into the coffers of a multi-national private equity firm valued at an estimated $4 billion dollars and enriches those private investors, not the public. This doesn't bother you Randy?

[Randito]

You forgot washington state sno-park permits @$120 per year. Crystal's parking fees are on weekends, when they also provide free bus service from Enumclaw. If you feel this arrangement is unreasonable, hopefully you have contacted the Enumclaw ranger district to complain. Public feedback can effect policy decisions. Enumclaw Office Location: 450 Roosevelt Avenue E Enumclaw, WA 98022 Operating Hours: current hours Phone Number: (360) 825-6585

[Malachai Constant]

BTW the Whistler passes are also good at Stevens, Vail, Stowe, Park City, etc for some of the days.

[altasnob]

[Randito]

[altasnob]

[Randito]

[altasnob]

I never said I have a right to free parking. I would be happy if the government took over Crystal's lots and administered whatever fee they think is appropriate, but that's never going to happen. And speaking of street parking in Seattle, does Seattle lease out their land to private companies and then let private companies charge whatever they want for parking and charge different users different amounts? You have private parking lots in Seattle, and they can charge whatever they want. But street parking is owned and operated by the city. And the city (and citizens) derive the benefits of this. I would have less of a problem with Crystal charging for parking if they charge all users the same (offer a daily and annual rate that ALL users have the opportunity to purchase). Season pass holders have leverage in this equation; they can take their business somewhere else if Crystal's fees are too high compared to the competition. Backcountry skiers have no leverage. It is up to the Forest Service to protect backcountry skiers' interests. When Crystal became a ski area in 1962 there was no backcountry skiing. I started backcountry skiing in the area in 2005/06, and there were very few backcountry skiers. That number has steadily increased and will steadily increase going forward with $200+ lift tickets and $1,700 season passes. More and more people are questioning the wisdom of spending huge amounts on lift tickets only to stand in lift lines. Crystal knows this, and knows they are losing paying customers to the backcountry. So Crystal has a financial incentive to discourage backcountry skiing. I fear the Forest Service doesn't give backcountry skiers enough consideration because the Forest Service doesn't make money off these users (the Forest Service gets a cut of money Crystal makes from lift tickets). And if you think it is preposterous that Forest Service officials managing Crystal might be in cahoots with Crystal, here's some reading for you.

[cascadeclimber]

[cascadeclimber]

[Randito]